triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

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Date: 30 Jun 2006 20:53:37
From:
Subject: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

with a triathlon , you use different muscles. I dont see why people
want to wear out their joints running to excess. really, it is a form
of laziness to only run. me, i am kayaking, running, mountain climbing,
walking, swimming, biking, and weight lifting.

Date: 01 Jul 2006 06:31:05
From: onemarathon
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

steve common wrote:
> seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >I dont see why people
> >want to wear out their joints running to excess.

you don't necessarily wear out your joints by running. some folks are
able to run right up into old age... and beyond.

> - some triathlons have a marathon in them, so it's the same thing
> - cycling is dangerous, wears your joints out and is bad for your
> testicles,
> - swimming is bad for your hair, skin and mucuses cos you're forced to
> wade through other peoples cooties, fungus, sweat, pee and droppings plus
> corrosive chemicals

Nothing lazy about *just* running, but it is very specialized, not
providing much fitness for the upper body. Triathlon is a better all
around fitness activity, since swimming works the upper bod very well.
I have to agree with Steve on most of his comments.... not sure if
there is solid evidence about cycling being bad for the 'nads.... as
long as you use an ergonomic seat that is 'nad-friendly, I don't see
how it would hurt 'em. Then again, just sitting correctly keeps things
out of harm's way :) My beef with cycling (no pun intended there) is
that it gives me sore neck and shoulders from the positioning.

As for swimming, yeah, it's rough on the hair and skin, and I just try
not to think about the crap in the water. Most of my training is in
pools so the nice strong chemicals keep the cooties at bay. Even if the
chlorine is frying my hair and epidermis. Gotta love it.

Cam

Date: 01 Jul 2006 14:43:57
From: steve common
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:

>I dont see why people
>want to wear out their joints running to excess.

- some triathlons have a marathon in them, so it's the same thing
- cycling is dangerous, wears your joints out and is bad for your
testicles,
- swimming is bad for your hair, skin and mucuses cos you're forced to
wade through other peoples cooties, fungus, sweat, pee and droppings plus
corrosive chemicals

Date: 01 Jul 2006 14:43:53
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

Its easy to get addicted to something like running and do it over and
over in an obsessive way. I call that lazy as you are basically in a
rut. It takes discipline to juggle multiple sports. Biking and swimming
are a lot easier on the joints. Marathons only take 2 hours anyway. Id
rather adventure race for 7 hrs plus and not have any of the injuries
associated with running. I wear a cap when i swim.

onemarathon wrote:
> steve common wrote:
> > seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > >I dont see why people
> > >want to wear out their joints running to excess.
>
> you don't necessarily wear out your joints by running. some folks are
> able to run right up into old age... and beyond.
>
> > - some triathlons have a marathon in them, so it's the same thing
> > - cycling is dangerous, wears your joints out and is bad for your
> > testicles,
> > - swimming is bad for your hair, skin and mucuses cos you're forced to
> > wade through other peoples cooties, fungus, sweat, pee and droppings plus
> > corrosive chemicals
>
> Nothing lazy about *just* running, but it is very specialized, not
> providing much fitness for the upper body. Triathlon is a better all
> around fitness activity, since swimming works the upper bod very well.
> I have to agree with Steve on most of his comments.... not sure if
> there is solid evidence about cycling being bad for the 'nads.... as
> long as you use an ergonomic seat that is 'nad-friendly, I don't see
> how it would hurt 'em. Then again, just sitting correctly keeps things
> out of harm's way :) My beef with cycling (no pun intended there) is
> that it gives me sore neck and shoulders from the positioning.
>
> As for swimming, yeah, it's rough on the hair and skin, and I just try
> not to think about the crap in the water. Most of my training is in
> pools so the nice strong chemicals keep the cooties at bay. Even if the
> chlorine is frying my hair and epidermis. Gotta love it.
>
> Cam

Date: 02 Jul 2006 04:43:14
From: Dot
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running

seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:
> Its easy to get addicted to something like running and do it over and
> over in an obsessive way. I call that lazy as you are basically in a
> rut. It takes discipline to juggle multiple sports. Biking and swimming
> are a lot easier on the joints. Marathons only take 2 hours anyway. Id
> rather adventure race for 7 hrs plus and not have any of the injuries
> associated with running.

You could try a longer marathon, maybe one in 3 dimensions.

But for a real comparison, run for 24 hrs - covering at least 100 miles
with about 30k ft uphill (plus the associated downhill). (I'm not
suggesting you do it in 100+F temps like last weekend's race (not mine),
but if you'd like, you can up the challenge that way.) Aw, shucks, you
could try for 100 mi, 50k uphill (plus down) in 60 hr - you only have to
run 36min/mi to become one of the few finishers in history.

Compare with a 24-hr adventure race where you're switching sports. Do
each solo (well, maybe we'll allow an aid station / transition zone) -
no pacers, no team. (I think adventure races are frequently teams where
you can tow/be towed.) The kayak stage has to be on lake (or if on
river, you need to go both up and down stream).

Or for another comparison, try each discipline in an adventure race for
24 hr.

Report back.

BTW, in a duathlon or adventure race, are people most likely to need
hospitalization from the trail run part or the mtn bike part? What about
falling rocks in rock climbing part of adventure race, as far as
injuries are concerned.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Date: 02 Jul 2006 05:37:06
From: Dot
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running

PS: For those on ultra list: ah, sorry - I got the digest for this
evening after I posted this. Definitely not intending to bring that
discussion here. The "solo" remark was to eliminate the team (potential
towing) aspect of adventure racing and "excessive" pacer aid. (I really
don't have a problem with pacers in general, esp. since bears are less
likely to attack two people than one.)

Date: 02 Jul 2006 04:09:48
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

<seatosummit28@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1151790233.481480.119070@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Its easy to get addicted to something like running and do it over and
> over in an obsessive way. I call that lazy as you are basically in a
> rut.

For novelty add about 10,000 or more feet of up and respective down and
remove the boredom and the laziness.

> It takes discipline to juggle multiple sports.

No, it just takes time. With your obnoxious attitude I suspect you are
single or your spouse is playing house with the mailman while you juggle
your sports.

>< Biking and swimming are a lot easier on the joints.

So is table tennis.

> rather adventure race for 7 hrs plus and not have any of the injuries
> associated with running.

What, only 7 hours? Come back wuss when the hours are 20+.

< I wear a cap when i swim.

Safe sex?

My we are self-important today.

-DF

Date: 01 Jul 2006 14:36:09
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

It's hot so I am carrying water now.
Doug Freese wrote:
> <seatosummit28@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1151726017.302342.267350@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > with a triathlon , you use different muscles. I dont see why people
> > want to wear out their joints running to excess. really, it is a form
> > of laziness to only run. me, i am kayaking, running, mountain
> > climbing,
> > walking, swimming, biking, and weight lifting.
>
> Contrary to what you think, you don't wear out your joints. There is no
> cause effect relationship. In fact running building up bone density and
> has benefits. If you have arthritis in your knees then running will not
> be good and other less strenuous sports will be needed.
>
> Are you the same person that exercises without water?
>
> -DF

Date: 02 Jul 2006 11:11:39
From: Dominic Shields
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

On 1 Jul 2006 14:36:09 -0700, seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:

>It's hot so I am carrying water now.
>Doug Freese wrote:
>> <seatosummit28@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1151726017.302342.267350@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> > with a triathlon , you use different muscles. I dont see why people
>> > want to wear out their joints running to excess. really, it is a form
>> > of laziness to only run. me, i am kayaking, running, mountain
>> > climbing,
>> > walking, swimming, biking, and weight lifting.
>>
>> Contrary to what you think, you don't wear out your joints. There is no
>> cause effect relationship. In fact running building up bone density and
>> has benefits. If you have arthritis in your knees then running will not
>> be good and other less strenuous sports will be needed.
>>
>> Are you the same person that exercises without water?
>>
>> -DF

OPs Newsreader posts backwards so in response to the
>It's hot so I am carrying water now.

Surely your "superior adrenaline level" [sic] means that you don't
need water . . . or food.

Date: 07 Jul 2006 02:53:54
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

Running is the thing I enjoy the most. Swimming and biking are boring
until you set goals for yourself. I do mountain biking and try to
improve my technical skill and endurance. You can advance a lot faster
in biking than running and with much less risk of injury. I'm just
learning to do the crawl properly so it is quite exciting. i cant
really swim right but my conditioning from running etc allows me to
rocket across the pool. I also like to scout out the women at the pool.
I have a speedometer on my bike and do intervals which is just as fun
as running if you do it enough to see improvement.

Dominic Shields wrote:
> On 4 Jul 2006 22:09:40 -0700, seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >high white blood cells might mean you have cancer. I'm not sure. Don't
> >assume everyone has the same life experience as you. I am one in a
> >million because a whole bunch of environmental factors that conspired
> >to make me extremely neurotic.
> >people go through things that you could never imagine possible. When I
> >come down from an adrenaline high , i can have insomnia and headaches
> >for months.
>
> The only assumption I am making is that unless someone has a specific
> professionally diagnosed *physical* condition then they will find that
> they respond to the physical demands of running as anyone else does
> and unilaterally declaring that proper nutrition and hydration before
> and during running isn't relevant to them is wrong.
>
> Following that starting some kind of pissing contest about X is better
> than Y is a bit of a waste of time, if I want to work different muscle
> groups I go to the gym, its boring, it might not suit oher people, but
> it suits me because personally I find swimming the most tedious
> activity imaginable with cycling a close second.

Date: 09 Jul 2006 22:08:55
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

Phil M. wrote:
> seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > My so-called condition is a neurosis/social anxiety. Social anxiety
> > basically equals motivation. Compared to me you are lazy. Everything in
> > the universe is relative and only defined relative to something else. I
> > feel great pain/depression/embarrassment/shame if I dont achieve a
> > certain level of performance.
>
> You lack the motivation to succeed. It takes motivation to develop a
> running program and stick to it. It takes motivation to dial back your
> adrenaline rush and run slowly on some days. That's the motivation you
> lack. Personally, I would love to be able to run full tilt every day. But I
> know that will not lead to success. The body reacts to stress followed by
> recovery, repeat. It's that simple.
>
> --
> Phil M.

I've been at this running thing for 18 months or so. Once I realized I
had to increase my mileage slowly that is what I did. I was recently
off for a couple weeks with the flu. I came back with a long run which
made my shins sore. I'm running 55 minutes at a slow pace after 18
months. That takes patience, persistence, optimism. Most people would
have quit. My kayak program is progressing very nicely. I can do 4
hour all-out practice sessions no problem. My swimming is also
progressing very nicely. .

Date: 09 Jul 2006 12:52:23
From: TenKBabe
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

lanceandrew@aol.com wrote:

> i've decided i'm not a billygoat, that event has far too much of a
> masochistic thing about it, but it was fun promoting it. however
> having said that, i am convinced i would be a far more distinguished
> runner in trail events than road, due to my strong lower body.

Have you seen pictures of the top trail runners. Rail thin from head to
toe.

tkb

Date: 09 Jul 2006 21:08:39
From: Tony S.
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

"TenKBabe" <tenkbabe@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1152474743.017592.313800@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> lanceandrew@aol.com wrote:
>
> > i've decided i'm not a billygoat, that event has far too much of a
> > masochistic thing about it, but it was fun promoting it. however
> > having said that, i am convinced i would be a far more distinguished
> > runner in trail events than road, due to my strong lower body.
>
> Have you seen pictures of the top trail runners. Rail thin from head to
> toe.
>
> tkb

This is the 5 time champion and course record holder for the escarpment
trail run, shown here winning the last race I did (mt Greylock HM).
http://tinyurl.com/grqqq Rail thin with hella strong legs.

-Tony

Date: 09 Jul 2006 23:29:56
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

"Tony S." <email_tonys@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:rfesg.3284$HJ3.1100@trndny03...
> This is the 5 time champion and course record holder for the
> escarpment
> trail run, shown here winning the last race I did (mt Greylock HM).
> http://tinyurl.com/grqqq Rail thin with hella strong legs.

Ben is one fast tough little shit. I watched him set the record a few
years ago at the Escarpment race. He crossed the line as if he just
started the race. And unlike you-know-who, a truly humble guy. He would
much rather Talk about you then himself. It seems a lot of the top
runners aren't trying to blow smoke up you know where. ;)

-Doug

Date: 09 Jul 2006 12:36:51
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

>By the way, did you sign
> up for the Escarpment Race?
_

i've decided i'm not a billygoat, that event has far too much of a
masochistic thing about it, but it was fun promoting it. however
having said that, i am convinced i would be a far more distinguished
runner in trail events than road, due to my strong lower body. if i
lived next to a trail, i'd probably run them. but i live next to
central park, so road it is.

soleus is 95%...stil slight nerve rumblings happen at the 8 mile mark
or so on a run. on my initial return to running i wore the Asics Gel
Foundation. Unbelievable one of a kind shoe like nothiing I've ever
seen. Billed as a "light weight motion control shoe". On first blush
that's an oxymoron..but no. It's exactly that, feels light as any
light weight trainer, yet provides all the sport and MC stuff you want.
Great forgiving shoe to recover in while minimizing strain & fatigue.
Asics which I love to slam has a homerun with this shoe due to it's
unique product category that I don't think many runners understand the
value of. Coming back from injury...it's best to run in a shoe that
lessons the demand on performance, etc. I firmly believe their is
something called a "recovery shoe", when recovering from a certain type
of injury, wear a certain type of shoe.

I sent these folks my $65 on a lark

http://www.skyline50k.us/

But I'm not 100% sure I'll be in California on this date, trying to.
If I am, no taper, no prep, nothing...just gonna show up with the
intension to win my age group. What would be a nightmare for
rec.running? Me showing up, coming off injury, entering a
Championship Event in the 2006 PA/USATF Ultra Grand Prix Series and
winning my age group. How sweet would that be ? :) LOL! You guys
would never ever hear the end of it from me.

Date: 10 Jul 2006 01:37:45
From: The Trailhead
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running

Lance,

I've done that race 4-5 times. It's the perfect course for you to show
us ultra runners that you are indeed a stud. There's nowhere on the
course where you have to walk due to steepness or rocks/roots, etc. You
can crank for the full 31M. Matter of fact I set my trail 50K PR there
and while I'm a wussy old man and walked maybe 1/2M, you should have no
problem. Let us know if you're actually doing it and I'll try to come
out and kibbitz.

lanceandrew@aol.com wrote:

> I sent these folks my $65 on a lark
>
> http://www.skyline50k.us/
>
> But I'm not 100% sure I'll be in California on this date, trying to.
> If I am, no taper, no prep, nothing...just gonna show up with the
> intension to win my age group. What would be a nightmare for
> rec.running? Me showing up, coming off injury, entering a
> Championship Event in the 2006 PA/USATF Ultra Grand Prix Series and
> winning my age group. How sweet would that be ? :) LOL! You guys
> would never ever hear the end of it from me.
>

Date: 10 Jul 2006 13:10:10
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

"The Trailhead" <thetrailhead*BS*@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:44B1AF90.6000604@yahoo.com...
>
> Lance,
>
> I've done that race 4-5 times. It's the perfect course for you to show
> us ultra runners that you are indeed a stud.

;) :) :)

> There's nowhere on the
> course where you have to walk due to steepness or rocks/roots, etc.
> You can crank for the full 31M. Matter of fact I set my trail 50K PR
> there and while I'm a wussy old man and walked maybe 1/2M, you should
> have no problem. Let us know if you're actually doing it and I'll try
> to come out and kibbitz.

I was hoping he would to the Escarpment race here and I would be the fly
on the wall. Luckily he has regained his senses and rather then do a
nasty 30k he wants to do an "easy" 50k. 'Easy" emphasis mine. ;)

-Doug

Date: 09 Jul 2006 23:24:47
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

<lanceandrew@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1152473811.430460.20610@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.skyline50k.us/

Nice honest race!
>
> But I'm not 100% sure I'll be in California on this date, trying to.
> If I am, no taper, no prep, nothing...just gonna show up with the
> intension to win my age group.

Not a chance Bubba!

> What would be a nightmare for
> rec.running? Me showing up, coming off injury, entering a
> Championship Event in the 2006 PA/USATF Ultra Grand Prix Series and
> winning my age group. How sweet would that be ? :) LOL! You guys
> would never ever hear the end of it from me.

This macho attitude is what got you injured in the first place. I admire
your cajones but you get zero from me for common sense to even send in
the money. I really do hope you do the race, not to see to get injured,
I'm not that mean spirited, but to show you humility. The 40-49 age
group is one of most the most completive groups. Finish first? Not
unless you fixed the trail markings. Even with the small typically small
field (150ish) - you ain't got a chance in hell. Now prove me wrong oh
powerful mountain man stuck in the city.

Still your daddy.

-Doug

Date: 09 Jul 2006 22:23:12
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

I'm an extremely neurotic individual. At least one in a thousand. i
know more about this subject than anybody. There is no blood test for
any of the mental disorders. Noone knows how the brain or physiology of
neurotic differs from a normal person. I just use adrenaline as an
analogy. My standards, values , expectations, etc are different than a
relaxed person but it would be difficult to go into the brain and find
structural anolmolies associated with these differences. I would love
to relax and sleep one day. I dont think it will happen.

Doug Freese wrote:
> <seatosummit28@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1152497993.770472.291770@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Right now I am going through a period of bad insomnia. I can feel that
> > my muscles are weak from lack of sleep. My body feels drained.
>
> Sounds like you're the picture of health.
>
> > I disagree with you when you say that my high intensity is only
> > beneficial for sprints.
>
> At the moment it seems to be playing dirty tricks on you.
>
> > I can maintain a very high level of intensity for weeks. It would take
> > months at my level intensity before a lower intenstiy individual would
> > catch up. However, my high intensity completely sabotages my long-term
> > training.
>
> The answer is not obvious? It's called overtraining!!! You must get
> to the drug store for your invincibility pills. We all take them and why
> we can do so much more than you but be careful if your erection lasts
> longer than 4 hours.
>
> > My so-called condition is a neurosis/social anxiety.
>
> Diagnosed by whom?
>
> > Social anxiety basically equals motivation.
>
> And serial killers are harmless.
>
> > Compared to me you are lazy.
>
> And compared to me you are a physical and/or mental cluster-fu*k revved
> in neutral going no place fast. .
>
>
> > Everything in
> > the universe is relative and only defined relative to something else.
>
> I love philosophy.
>
> > I feel great pain/depression/embarrassment/shame if I dont achieve
> > a
> > certain level of performance. I dont know how that is represented
> > chemically in the body,
>
> So you are self diagnosed or you would know the answer.
>
> > but I know I have a superior intensity like
> > so I might someday be a great runner.
>
> Maybe we should get your autograph before you're on the front page of
> Sports Illustrated. Wayne Gretzky?
> Why not Lance Armstrong, Michael Johnson or Michael Jordan? Better yet,
> just take the cards you're dealt and work with them and forego finding
> the fountain of youth.
>
> There are meds to temper these hallucinations. See a dor. Maybe an
> exorcism? Troll on...
>
> -DF

Date: 10 Jul 2006 13:23:18
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

<seatosummit28@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1152508992.865037.310670@35g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> I'm an extremely neurotic individual. At least one in a thousand. i
> know more about this subject than anybody. There is no blood test for
> any of the mental disorders. Noone knows how the brain or physiology
> of
> neurotic differs from a normal person. I just use adrenaline as an
> analogy. My standards, values , expectations, etc are different than a
> relaxed person but it would be difficult to go into the brain and find
> structural anolmolies associated with these differences. I would love
> to relax and sleep one day. I dont think it will happen.

All I see is you analyzing you. When you say "i know more about this
subject than anybody" you are your own worst enemy. You have yet to
admit you have ever been to a dor. I know there are meds available
to help this condition and still exercise. You don't think you are the
only neurotic person in the world, do you? There is a fine line between
type A, which we have set of right here in r.r, to neuroses.

This all assumes your not trolling and I think you are.

-DF

Date: 01 Jul 2006 18:02:23
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

Date: 02 Jul 2006 19:37:24
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

Dominic Shields wrote:
> On 2 Jul 2006 14:05:52 -0700, seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >Funny you should mention this. I have the flu and it kind of
> >anaesthetized me. ie I have much reduced level of adrenaline in system.
> >I can bearly run I'm so lazy. Know what it must be like for you
> >ordinary runners who lack high levels of adrenaline. Have had a
> >headache for a week now. Need to get my high adrenaline level back.
>
> Barking or trolling

I'm not trolling. I have a very high adrenaline level. It is totally
dysfunctional. I'd give anything to come down to a sane level,
actually.

Date: 03 Jul 2006 20:38:26
From: Dominic Shields
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

On 2 Jul 2006 19:37:24 -0700, seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:

>
>Dominic Shields wrote:
>> On 2 Jul 2006 14:05:52 -0700, seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> >Funny you should mention this. I have the flu and it kind of
>> >anaesthetized me. ie I have much reduced level of adrenaline in system.
>> >I can bearly run I'm so lazy. Know what it must be like for you
>> >ordinary runners who lack high levels of adrenaline. Have had a
>> >headache for a week now. Need to get my high adrenaline level back.
>>
>> Barking or trolling
>
>I'm not trolling. I have a very high adrenaline level. It is totally
>dysfunctional. I'd give anything to come down to a sane level,
>actually.

How do you know ? Do you have an overactive adrenal gland ? (assuming
such a condition exists) Has it been measured?

But all that pales into insignificance when you contemplate what
relevance it has to endurance.

Date: 09 Jul 2006 19:46:56
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

seatosummi...@yahoo.com wrote:
> social anxiety is a 24 hr/day kind of thing. the lion is chasing you
> 24/7.
_

Seatosummit, you're not competitive, a troll, and that's all. its
possible that you don't even run. rule #1, a competitive person would
not hide behind an alias. clearly understand that. *if* you were
authentically competitive, you would be comfortable referencing and or
attaching identity, etc. to self. truly competitive people openly
state their unvarnished views with no regard or concern to blowback /
ramifications.
You're inability to attach-connect true identity to your talk = fraud.

Date: 09 Jul 2006 19:23:46
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

social anxiety is a 24 hr/day kind of thing. the lion is chasing you
24/7.

Dominic Shields wrote:
> On 8 Jul 2006 22:54:27 -0700, seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Adrenaline is only a messenger. It
> >tells the body that there is danger and initiates the flight or fight
> >stuff
>
> This is where I think you are deluding yourself, the fight or flight
> response lasts a couple of minutes at most as that is the length of
> time these activities last. You have admitted that no tests show any
> elevated levels of adrenaline in your body so this supposed adrenaline
> effect has no relationship to distance running - do you have a big,
> scary animal chasing you for 13 miles ?

Date: 10 Jul 2006 20:33:53
From: Dominic Shields
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

On 9 Jul 2006 19:23:46 -0700, seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:

>social anxiety is a 24 hr/day kind of thing. the lion is chasing you
>24/7.

OK, the answer has just come to me, wear a Heart Rate Monitor or
preferably a Garmin 301/305 and run a flat 10K as fast as you can -
preferably in a race - then upload the information to Motionbased.
Then we can all see the evidence of your miraculous "intensity". To
show that I'm prepared to do this here is mine from a 10K race I took
part in back in February.
I ran it in 42:24 with an average heart rate of 162 compared to my max
age-related HR of 178

http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/invitation/dashboard.mb?episodePk.pkValue=451539

No doubt you would average a heart rate off the scale - let's see.

Date: 11 Jul 2006 06:59:43
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

> As I understand it, you returned to running sometime in mid-June after
> how many months on the injury list

3rd week of June, Donovan saw me & my girlfriend in fact in Central
Park running, as was he, and we said "hey". I was injured for 32 of
the previous 35 weeks, unable to run at all :(

- and now you tell us you're already
> up to 78 god damn miles!

yes but that was last week, this week i will clock 90.

> So, Lance, are you really sure you want to risk doing something (very,
> very loosely) similar with your running?:-)

Easy answer, "yes". Most published running & training lore is soft
peddled, dumbed down, for broad scale public consumption, your average
adult athlete. Our capacities, abilities, and talents are not equal.
Some of us can function fine with no impairing / fatigue on 5 hours
sleep, some cannot. Our mental & physically capacities vary.

I went to school in New Hampshire where the saying is, "Live Free or
Die Trying". Of course rapper 50 Cent ripped off this New Hampshire
line with his album 'Get Rich or Die Trying". Perhaps we can agree
on the middle ground between these two and I defer to Lord Tennyson,
"I hold it true, whatever befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'tis
better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all."

The moments wherein we're striding as we run are perhaps acts of
self-love. I am ready to die trying (become injured) in the pursuit of
unaccomplished goals as a runner.

Date: 11 Jul 2006 18:23:26
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

<lanceandrew@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1152626383.632003.225380@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

> yes but that was last week, this week i will clock 90.

We gotta give Lance credit for big cajones. I really do hope he is over
the hump and back into full training so we can see if his true potential
matches his verbal hubris. With 90 miles a week he should be able to
get past using his chubby BMI as a reason for under-performing. The
weight should be melting away and approaching the stature of a fleet
Kenyan. ;)

Yo daddy,
-Doug

Date: 12 Jul 2006 02:06:28
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

I've never heard that definition of neurosis before. I know that some
shrinks definitely think like that. There saying someone like woody
allen is half way to being psychotic ie. his physical brain has
anomolies that cause him to be paranoid. I think most people with
common sense realize woody allen is shy and nervous because he is
short, ugly, and jewish. I'm a first born of six. Psychiatrists are
merely witch dors. They are very similar to the Catholic Church.
This has been proven over and over again by independent studies which
show that shrinks cannot tell the difference between the different
disorders and cannot tell the difference between a normal person and
abnormal person. The drug studies are conducted by shareholder in the
drug companies. many of the study subjects are stock holders. the
studies are not double-blind. the studies rely on the subjective
reporting of the patient. it takes a lot of work, but you can go
through the studies and see that they prove nothing. For example, if
alcohol was a new drug , it would be a miracle drug according to how
the studies are conducted. very few are more than 12 weeks long. This
is really off-topic. Lets kill this.

Doug Freese wrote:
> <seatosummit28@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1152593016.749521.176710@35g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > I've studied psychiatry and seen lots of shrinks. The meds dont work.
>
> They don't work for you or don't work for everyone, or don't work for
> some percent? I realize shrinkology is not an exact science, hell so is
> medicine, but I know people that are being helped nicely with meds.
> It's well known that is not always easy to find the correct flavor and
> dosage and needs constant monitoring. I will agree that meds are
> over-prescribed be it mental or physical. Some of this is driven by the
> perception. People demand a magic elixir before they leave the office.
> The idiot box is inundated by drug companies with ads to solve just
> about every malady. Ijust love the ED ads - call the doc if you get a 4
> hour tilt in your kilt. My conclusion some help and some don't and to
> say they don't, is untrue.
>
> > The studies that say they work are not scientific.
>
> Care you cite one so we can see your plight.
>
> > i'm contemplating writing a book on mental illness.
>
> And the thrust of the book is? We rally need a new fad diet book.
> Atkins has fizzled like all the others and South Beach hasn't gained any
> momentum. And you credentials are? As far as I can tell you don't
> understand the basics of physiology much less mental health. Call us
> when you get your advance.
>
>
> > Believe it or not, Tom Cruise is right about psychiatry. There are a
> > lot of people who are forced to take these "meds" that do not work.
>
> Careful about using Tom Cruise as a source of information - it's like
> using Liz Taylor as a marriage counselor or Michael Jackson for child
> rearing. Ooops, bad play on words.
>
> > Most mental illness is caused by social problems: low confidence and
> > not fitting in.
>
> Most? Again, help me with a web page or two to spell this out. Last time
> I looked some was social/behavioral, some was genetic and some is
> physical and some all of them. You have some definitive study? You have
> my interest.
> .
>
> > I dont know there is a difference between A-type personalty and
> > neuroses.
>
> That's like saying there is no difference between the common cold and
> bubonic plague,they both make you fell bad. You really want to claim
> that type A:
> "relating to, characteristic of, having, or being a personality that is
> marked by impatience, aggressiveness, and competitiveness"
>
> and neurosis:
> " a mental and emotional disorder that affects only part of the
> personality, is accompanied by a less distorted perception of reality
> than in a psychosis, does not result in disturbance of the use of
> language, and is accompanied by various physical, physiological, and
> mental disturbances (as visceral symptoms, anxieties, or phobias)"
>
> are the same or close across the board? You say you studied psychiatry?
> In your case I'm leaning to a diagnosis of phycosis:
> " fundamental derangement of the mind (as in schizophrenia)
> characterized by defective or lost contact with reality especially as
> evidenced by delusions, hallucinations, and disorganized speech and
> behavior "
>
> > Why do most first borns do better than their siblings at most
> > sports and academics? The first born begins with higher expectations
> > and standards. The parents expect more of the eldest child and are
> > more
> > easily disappointed if the child does not achieve. They begin to feel
> > good about themselves only when they achieve. The next child in line
> > has a lot less pressure on them. The first born represents the family
> > not the second born. The second born becomes more social and feels
> > good
> > about themselves when they make others feel good rather than
> > achieving.
> > An A-type person can have lots of confidence and be very socially
> > competent. I guess a neurotic is someone ugly or stupid or short who
> > feels inadequate ie woody allen. They may compensate for feelings of
> > inadequacy by achieving things or they might just slip into a lifetime
> > of depression.
>
> Woody Allen? Is TV Guide or Entertainment Tonight your source of
> information? So, you were the second born and feel abused and why you
> are not wrapped tight? Are you claiming all second born experience the
> same or just you? Sounds a little delusional, with a hint of
> persecution complex or you're trolling without a rudder.
>
> -DF

Date: 12 Jul 2006 13:49:49
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

<seatosummit28@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1152695188.302168.64080@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I've never heard that definition of neurosis before.

Meriam Webster - not mine.

> I know that some shrinks definitely think like that. There saying
> someone like woody
> allen is half way to being psychotic ie. his physical brain has
> anomolies that cause him to be paranoid.

And they tested this how or just supposition?

> I think most people with
> common sense realize woody allen is shy and nervous because he is
> short, ugly, and jewish.

Oh it must be that! So he was ok as a kid, discovered later he was
short, ugly, and Jewish, and turned neurotic? I can understand in
general about being short and ugly, although they are arbitrary but
Jewish? This religious implication sounds racially contrived. Oh, maybe
the result of a circumcision when he was 40? That might smart just a wee
bit especially with his inclination to have sex with young ladies a la
Mia's adopted daughter Soon-Yi Previn. A mere 35 years difference in
age. Neurotic yes, but I think he a few more bats in the belfry.

> I'm a first born of six.

For your parents sake I hope the other 5 are more balanced.

> Psychiatrists are merely witch dors.

Yup! They get stuffed dolls, pins and funny head gear when the graduate
from school.

> They are very similar to the Catholic Church.

Just wait till the Pope hears this one. he has an exorcism waiting for
you.

> This has been proven over and over again by independent studies which
> show that shrinks cannot tell the difference between the different
> disorders and cannot tell the difference between a normal person and
> abnormal person.

Just one little web page so we can see the basis of your "fact."

> The drug studies are conducted by shareholder in the
> drug companies. many of the study subjects are stock holders. the
> studies are not double-blind. the studies rely on the subjective
> reporting of the patient. it takes a lot of work, but you can go
> through the studies and see that they prove nothing.

So every test is performed this sam shoddy way and thus every shrink is
evil or nmisguided? Sounds like the prereq for psyciatry is to screw up
the world. Are they also lousy Mds and why they go on?

> alcohol was a new drug , it would be a miracle drug according to how
> the studies are conducted. very few are more than 12 weeks long. This
> is really off-topic. Lets kill this.

It's actually an interesting discussion and a true conundrum. You who
need some serious shrinking don't like nor trust those that can help you
most. I sense a little, ok a lot of paranoia but I don't have a
shingle. To ties this back to running, unless you get a grip on this
condition, your running will always suck and not condusive to positive
social interaction. Do some of you acquaintances think you are a bit
strange?

Do you have the same opion about medical dors? How about Dentists and
vets or anyone in authority?

-DF

Date: 18 Jul 2006 04:18:13
From: anders
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

lanceandrew@aol.com kirjoitti:

(Your comments left me pondering concepts such as self-love and
hindsight, and I hope you don't mind a somewhat late reply. If you find
my attitude rather condescending or whatever, please read those lines
as my holding a conversation with myself, sort of.)

> yes but that was last week, this week i will clock 90.

You already told us so. but you won't get me to exclaim that the jump
from 78 to 90 is more than 15% and therefore too much according to
accepted wisdom, most published running lore and all that:-)

OTOH I'd have like to read about *how* you clocked that 78 or 90. To
begin with, It makes a considerable difference whether you run the
miles in singles, doubles or even triples. Not that I couldn't find the
mileage ill-advised any way you did it - but it could help us figure
how hard your training load is and how many of the miles are pure
vanity miles.

> Easy answer, "yes". Most published running & training lore is soft
> peddled, dumbed down, for broad scale public consumption, your average
> adult athlete. Our capacities, abilities, and talents are not equal.
> Some of us can function fine with no impairing / fatigue on 5 hours
> sleep, some cannot. Our mental & physically capacities vary.

What makes you assume anything I said was based on what I might've read
in the kind of lore you have in mind? And more importantly, what makes
you assume that you capacity, ability and talent as a middle-aged long
distance runner are so much above average that you can safely - nay,
without a huge risk of making yourself look like a baboon also in your
eyes and the laughing stock of all the voices of reason you'll hear in
your mind - neglect lessons of experience and common sense?

Unless I'm mistaken, all (or both?) of your attempts at "above average"
marathon training have ended up not quite in tears but in a DNS or a de
facto DNF - what makes you think you are so much stronger now?

(BTW sleep is something that is needed mainly for the brain. AFAIK
there is no connection between an ability to do with little sleep and
an ability to do with considerably less than average physical recovery
(in which sleep is but one factor). And an ability to do with
remarkably short physical recovery as a young athlete is absolutely no
guarantee for an ability to do with shorter than average recovery as a
middle-aged athlete.)

> I went to school in New Hampshire where the saying is, "Live Free or
> Die Trying". Of course rapper 50 Cent ripped off this New Hampshire
> line with his album 'Get Rich or Die Trying". Perhaps we can agree
> on the middle ground between these two and I defer to Lord Tennyson,
> "I hold it true, whatever befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'tis
> better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all."

I would've believed it was Lou Reed who wrote the last part, but it
must be you who has taken an Eng Lit course in a good college:-)

> The moments wherein we're striding as we run are perhaps acts of
> self-love. I am ready to die trying (become injured) in the pursuit of
> unaccomplished goals as a runner.

You are right about the self-love - and self-love is a good thing. But
it must often be guided by something (such as reason, wisdom, ethics,
religion, moderation), lest it becomes plain vanity. And vanity makes
for a poor coach.

Besides true self-love (of the beneficial kind) can often be confused
with love of a self-image - and when that image is false, the results
may not be happy. "Know thyself" should be written in gold letters on
the covers of the training manuals we all write for ourselves as we
proceed:-)

While I would agree that there's no reason to regret something one did
if one simply couldn't have done otherwise ("better", "wiser" or
"smarter") unless one had known or understood something that one
couldn't know or understand *then*, I believe there's every reason to
avoiding errors that are caused primarily by one's vanity,

We all tweak the published training plans we use - and it's not only to
fit them into our weekly routines or to match our exact performance
level, it's also because our vanity insists that we are different from
"Otto Normalrunner". Or we stretch ourselves to meet loftier programs:
I know I've done things like choosing more ambitious training paces,
higher mileages, fewer rest days mainly because I was too vain to
settle for something that appeared to be for the "soft peddling"
runners. God knows I'm doing it now, just to view myself as following a
Lydiard programme...

It is the most unexceptional manner of being quite normal to believe
that some tired rule doesn't apply to oneself. You may believe that you
are, or the weakest link in your body or kinetic chain is, up to steep
increases in mileage or to a relatively high mileage for a middle-aged
guy - but you're IMHO only being extraordinary unexceptional here. You
may not regret it if the quite likely or the inevitable happens, but
IMHO you would then only prove that you possess an extraordinarily
durable false self-image.

If you are truly pursuing a goal in running that is in sync with the
strong focus with racing - and racing well! - you've often expressed
here, you should be able to emulate the elite athletes also in their
approach to training: they never knowingly seek injury, illness or a
performance rut and they never step over a training level. They know
that there is a time to be humble and a time to be bold - it's only the
effing amateurs, training run world champions, "I was in 2:40
shape"-performers who don't!

There *is* a road between keeping banging one's head against a wall -
while pretending one is pursuing a racing goal - and settling for a
no-risk, no-gain training level meant for the masses who need things
dumbed, slowed and softened down for them!

You may be reluctant to rob the neighbourhood ladies of just one day
without a sight of your (presumably bare) upper body - it is only the
tr=E8s chic choice of colours in my running apparel that could evoke
similar reactions - but that might be the beginning of a true pursuit
of unaccomplished running goals for you!

Anders (in a preacher mode)

Date: 02 Jul 2006 19:35:31
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

how can you injure yourself paddling? how can you injure yourself
mountain biking? how can you injure yourself running when 50 percent of
the time you are hiking the steep hills? I can hike forever and not get
injured. it is running that causes my injuries.
onemarathon wrote:
> seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Its easy to get addicted to something like running and do it over and
> > over in an obsessive way. I call that lazy as you are basically in a
> > rut.
>
> silly.... not a rut at all. and that takes discipline for sure to get
> oneself out there on the roads (or treadmill, or path, etc) each day to
> get some good, honest exercise. i wouldn't criticize any one exercise,
> considering the alternative of being a potato-chip fed couch potato.
>
> It takes discipline to juggle multiple sports. Biking and swimming
> > are a lot easier on the joints. Marathons only take 2 hours anyway.
>
> only 2 hours... yeah. only the best of the best are doing it that fast.
> the rest of us middle to back of the packers are doing it in at least
> double that.
>
> Id
> > rather adventure race for 7 hrs plus and not have any of the injuries
> > associated with running. I wear a cap when i swim.
>
> yeah, you don't get injuries training for seven hour races, do you? do
> you? c'mon.
>
> Cam

Date: 03 Jul 2006 12:51:23
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

<seatosummit28@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1151894131.820828.168800@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> how can you injure yourself mountain biking?

Then your biking on a paved flat rail trail with training wheels. So,
MB'ers never get injured from falling or over-training? Naivet�
personified.

< how can you injure yourself running when 50 percent of
> the time you are hiking the steep hills?

Again, like any activity one can do too much hiking, especially steep
ups and have problems.

Just because you don't does mean it does not happen. You at least get a
A for staying within you safety zone. It's more indirect common sense.

> I can hike forever and not get injured. it is running that causes my
> injuries.

And I'll bet you get injured while running because you don't understand
how to train for the sport. You have yet to demonstrate you understand
the basics.

I will agree that doing multisports eases the probability of injuries.
OTOH, anyone who overtrains be it one sport or muli-sports can end up on
the bench. Your lack of injuries suggests you are staying within your
physical abilities. To claim multisports will keep one injury free is
again, naivet�.

In fact many of my friends that compete in multi's are often injured.
Those type A's, aka the highly competitive, are never satisfied. They
always feel that each sport takes time from the other and starts a
progression of abuse over all the sports. There is also a associated
problem with multi's - called divorce if not intense family problems
assuming one has a SO.

Whether it is one or more sports, it is knowing your strengths and
weaknesses and how train and not get injured. A simple concept but
difficult to implement as anyone on this board will attest to. All you
know is what you do today has not injured you.... yet. To extrapolate
that to what others should do is preposterous. I'd be willing to bet if
you came along on some of my workouts, which by the way do not injure me
and include lots of hiking, would have you in a hospital bed. For me to
suggest that others follow my lead is disingenuous at best.

-DF

Date: 03 Jul 2006 06:50:17
From: userfriendly
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

<seatosummit28@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1151894131.820828.168800@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
: how can you injure yourself paddling?

Rotator cuffs...torn biceps...etc

how can you injure yourself
: mountain biking?

achilles tendons, knees, lower back, doing endos...

how can you injure yourself running when 50 percent of
: the time you are hiking the steep hills? I can hike forever and not get
: injured. it is running that causes my injuries.
: onemarathon wrote:
: > seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:
: > > Its easy to get addicted to something like running and do it over and
: > > over in an obsessive way. I call that lazy as you are basically in a
: > > rut.
: >
: > silly.... not a rut at all. and that takes discipline for sure to get
: > oneself out there on the roads (or treadmill, or path, etc) each day to
: > get some good, honest exercise. i wouldn't criticize any one exercise,
: > considering the alternative of being a potato-chip fed couch potato.
: >
: > It takes discipline to juggle multiple sports. Biking and swimming
: > > are a lot easier on the joints. Marathons only take 2 hours anyway.
: >
: > only 2 hours... yeah. only the best of the best are doing it that fast.
: > the rest of us middle to back of the packers are doing it in at least
: > double that.
: >
: > Id
: > > rather adventure race for 7 hrs plus and not have any of the injuries
: > > associated with running. I wear a cap when i swim.
: >
: > yeah, you don't get injuries training for seven hour races, do you? do
: > you? c'mon.
: >
: > Cam
:

Date: 03 Jul 2006 20:06:33
From: Dot
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running

seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:

> how can you injure yourself paddling? how can you injure yourself
> mountain biking? how can you injure yourself running when 50 percent of
> the time you are hiking the steep hills? I can hike forever and not get
> injured. it is running that causes my injuries.
> onemarathon wrote:

All activities can have overuse injuries. All activities can also have
traumatic injuries. There's reasons some races have ambulances or rescue
squads nearby. Esp. for mtn bike races or duathlons. There's a reason
people wear helments while biking, paddling (kayaking or canoeing),
climbing, etc. The rocks are hard - no matter how you encounter them.

You'll see as you expand your horizons - or have friends that do these
things competitively.

--
Mount Marathon, Alaska's premier running (loose use of term) race and
source of many best blood pictures, is tomorrow, July 4.

Date: 02 Jul 2006 19:32:15
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

Ok, i will look at your links on physiology. To me, a high adrenaline
level is equal to high intensity and is the opposite of lazy. I'll be
the first to admit that my high adrenaline level has hurt my running.
First, I feel no pain and end up injuring myself time after time.
Second, my sleep is shallow so my immune system is weak so it take
forever to get over the flu and also the stress of running seems to
reduce quality of sleep and weakens my immune system further. I am
bigger than life. Noone has my intensity level.

Doug Freese wrote:
> <seatosummit28@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1151874450.664757.59390@j8g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Wow, are you ever hostile. I see a lot of projection in your post.
>
> Just impatient with those blowing smoke up their own ass to appear
> bigger than life.
>
> < Need to get my high adrenaline level back.
>
> It's on sale at Wal-Mart right next to the ouji boards. Please do
> yourself a favor and buy a book basic physiology or better yet one about
> endurance. Did you go through those web pages on endurance I provided?
> The fact that your still speaking of adrenaline suggests your into the
> flat earth theory.
>
> -DF

Date: 03 Jul 2006 13:02:59
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

<seatosummit28@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1151893935.488710.88460@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ok, i will look at your links on physiology. To me, a high adrenaline
> level is equal to high intensity and is the opposite of lazy.

It says you have little control over your emotions and nothing to do
with lazy. It's glycogen not adrenalin per se that keeps you moving
forward. Everything at high intensity is macho BS!

> I'll be
> the first to admit that my high adrenaline level has hurt my running.

Once you get past the fact that balls to the wall is not smart and you
need to slow down and take smaller increments of progress, you will
always be injured.

> First, I feel no pain and end up injuring myself time after time.

re-read the above a few times and if the answer is not obvious I throw
up my hands.

> Second, my sleep is shallow so my immune system is weak so it take
> forever to get over the flu and also the stress of running seems to
> reduce quality of sleep and weakens my immune system further. I am
> bigger than life.

Duh? It's an old adage, listen to your body. Sure sounds like classic
over-training. You haven't broken a muscle just your overall system.

> Noone has my intensity level.

Yea, right! It's more of the case you do not have any
self-control(large ego) - big difference. You might be the ideal
candidate for a heart monitor to control your pace.

-DF

Date: 02 Jul 2006 17:46:36
From: onemarathon
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:
> Its easy to get addicted to something like running and do it over and
> over in an obsessive way. I call that lazy as you are basically in a
> rut.

silly.... not a rut at all. and that takes discipline for sure to get
oneself out there on the roads (or treadmill, or path, etc) each day to
get some good, honest exercise. i wouldn't criticize any one exercise,
considering the alternative of being a potato-chip fed couch potato.

It takes discipline to juggle multiple sports. Biking and swimming
> are a lot easier on the joints. Marathons only take 2 hours anyway.

only 2 hours... yeah. only the best of the best are doing it that fast.
the rest of us middle to back of the packers are doing it in at least
double that.

Id
> rather adventure race for 7 hrs plus and not have any of the injuries
> associated with running. I wear a cap when i swim.

yeah, you don't get injuries training for seven hour races, do you? do
you? c'mon.

Cam

Date: 02 Jul 2006 14:16:43
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

I've only seen one case of towing and that was on mountain bikes on
pavement.
Dot wrote:
> PS: For those on ultra list: ah, sorry - I got the digest for this
> evening after I posted this. Definitely not intending to bring that
> discussion here. The "solo" remark was to eliminate the team (potential
> towing) aspect of adventure racing and "excessive" pacer aid. (I really
> don't have a problem with pacers in general, esp. since bears are less
> likely to attack two people than one.)

Date: 02 Jul 2006 14:14:14
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

In an adventure race you are running in the mountains so you end up
walking many of the steeper hills so you are hiking more than running
which reduces the chances of injury. There are a lot of newbies in
adventure racing so they get slaughtered in the mountain biking
section.

Dot wrote:
> seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Its easy to get addicted to something like running and do it over and
> > over in an obsessive way. I call that lazy as you are basically in a
> > rut. It takes discipline to juggle multiple sports. Biking and swimming
> > are a lot easier on the joints. Marathons only take 2 hours anyway. Id
> > rather adventure race for 7 hrs plus and not have any of the injuries
> > associated with running.
>
> You could try a longer marathon, maybe one in 3 dimensions.
>
> But for a real comparison, run for 24 hrs - covering at least 100 miles
> with about 30k ft uphill (plus the associated downhill). (I'm not
> suggesting you do it in 100+F temps like last weekend's race (not mine),
> but if you'd like, you can up the challenge that way.) Aw, shucks, you
> could try for 100 mi, 50k uphill (plus down) in 60 hr - you only have to
> run 36min/mi to become one of the few finishers in history.
>
> Compare with a 24-hr adventure race where you're switching sports. Do
> each solo (well, maybe we'll allow an aid station / transition zone) -
> no pacers, no team. (I think adventure races are frequently teams where
> you can tow/be towed.) The kayak stage has to be on lake (or if on
> river, you need to go both up and down stream).
>
> Or for another comparison, try each discipline in an adventure race for
> 24 hr.
>
> Report back.
>
> BTW, in a duathlon or adventure race, are people most likely to need
> hospitalization from the trail run part or the mtn bike part? What about
> falling rocks in rock climbing part of adventure race, as far as
> injuries are concerned.
>
> Dot
>
> --
> "Success is different things to different people"
> -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Date: 02 Jul 2006 14:07:30
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

Wow, are you ever hostile. I see a lot of projection in your post.
Doug Freese wrote:
> <seatosummit28@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1151790233.481480.119070@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > Its easy to get addicted to something like running and do it over and
> > over in an obsessive way. I call that lazy as you are basically in a
> > rut.
>
> For novelty add about 10,000 or more feet of up and respective down and
> remove the boredom and the laziness.
>
>
> > It takes discipline to juggle multiple sports.
>
> No, it just takes time. With your obnoxious attitude I suspect you are
> single or your spouse is playing house with the mailman while you juggle
> your sports.
>
>
> >< Biking and swimming are a lot easier on the joints.
>
> So is table tennis.
>
> > rather adventure race for 7 hrs plus and not have any of the injuries
> > associated with running.
>
>
> What, only 7 hours? Come back wuss when the hours are 20+.
>
> < I wear a cap when i swim.
>
> Safe sex?
>
> My we are self-important today.
>
> -DF

Date: 02 Jul 2006 21:21:19
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

<seatosummit28@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1151874450.664757.59390@j8g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Wow, are you ever hostile. I see a lot of projection in your post.

Just impatient with those blowing smoke up their own ass to appear
bigger than life.

< Need to get my high adrenaline level back.

It's on sale at Wal-Mart right next to the ouji boards. Please do
yourself a favor and buy a book basic physiology or better yet one about
endurance. Did you go through those web pages on endurance I provided?
The fact that your still speaking of adrenaline suggests your into the
flat earth theory.

-DF

Date: 02 Jul 2006 14:05:52
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

Funny you should mention this. I have the flu and it kind of
anaesthetized me. ie I have much reduced level of adrenaline in system.
I can bearly run I'm so lazy. Know what it must be like for you
ordinary runners who lack high levels of adrenaline. Have had a
headache for a week now. Need to get my high adrenaline level back.

Dominic Shields wrote:
> On 1 Jul 2006 14:36:09 -0700, seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >It's hot so I am carrying water now.
> >Doug Freese wrote:
> >> <seatosummit28@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1151726017.302342.267350@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >> > with a triathlon , you use different muscles. I dont see why people
> >> > want to wear out their joints running to excess. really, it is a form
> >> > of laziness to only run. me, i am kayaking, running, mountain
> >> > climbing,
> >> > walking, swimming, biking, and weight lifting.
> >>
> >> Contrary to what you think, you don't wear out your joints. There is no
> >> cause effect relationship. In fact running building up bone density and
> >> has benefits. If you have arthritis in your knees then running will not
> >> be good and other less strenuous sports will be needed.
> >>
> >> Are you the same person that exercises without water?
> >>
> >> -DF
>
> OPs Newsreader posts backwards so in response to the
> >It's hot so I am carrying water now.
>
> Surely your "superior adrenaline level" [sic] means that you don't
> need water . . . or food.

Date: 02 Jul 2006 22:36:29
From: Dominic Shields
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

On 2 Jul 2006 14:05:52 -0700, seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:

>Funny you should mention this. I have the flu and it kind of
>anaesthetized me. ie I have much reduced level of adrenaline in system.
>I can bearly run I'm so lazy. Know what it must be like for you
>ordinary runners who lack high levels of adrenaline. Have had a
>headache for a week now. Need to get my high adrenaline level back.

Barking or trolling

Date: 09 Jul 2006 20:21:14
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

Thanks Trailhead. I am registered...it's simply a matter of me being
in Calfornia on that date, believe me...I am a race rat, if I am there
I will run. I'm selling one of my properties in Oakland and may in
fact be there then. If anyone wants to buy a triplex,
www.oaklandtriplex.com (shamaless plug). For sale by owner, yours
truly :) LOL.

I'm an emotional & psychological runner. This is a highly
controversial subject on this ng however this race would be good for me
as I grew up in this area, as a kid used to bike and walk up to Lake
Chabot from MacAruthur Blvd in San Leandro and fish, etc. In sum, I
would feel a connection with the land, the course, that dates back to
the 70's. That means something to me & would inspire me to endure.
Recovering from injury is disciplining me to run slow.

Note the week before is the SF Marathon which I've also considered.
I'm feeling great, clocked 78 miles last week...pushing it up to 90
miles this week and I'm just gonna establish that 90 mpw base (in
flats). When you run slow (75%) clocking 90-100 mpw does not strike
as a tall order at all to me. If I race in Cali, on my home turf, I've
got to win the race (in my age group). If I can lose some weight,
show up with a 24 BMI on that race day, I'll win my age group. I'll
know a week ahead of time if I will be there and will let you know.

Date: 09 Jul 2006 17:13:28
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

TenKBabe wrote:
> Have you seen pictures of the top trail runners. Rail thin from head to
> toe.
> tkb
_

in all due respect i don't believe that's an accurate characterization.

take a look at andrew picking.
http://www.coloradorunnermag.com/news/Danielesque_2004.html

and this photo is a good shot at Darcy Africa's thighs
http://www.trailrunnermag.com/index1.html

"rail thin" are the road runners. Meb is the only guy I know that has
a matter of meat on his thighs, I see Deen Drossin Kastor a couple
times a week. She's rail thin. The top trail men and women generally
have more mass, understable for the rigors of the trails.

Date: 11 Jul 2006 04:06:09
From: anders
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

lanceandrew@aol.com wrote:

> I'm an emotional & psychological runner.

You can say that again:-)

> This is=
a highly
> controversial subject on this ng however this race would be good for me
> as I grew up in this area, as a kid used to bike and walk up to Lake
> Chabot from MacAruthur Blvd in San Leandro and fish, etc. In sum, I
> would feel a connection with the land, the course, that dates back to
> the 70's. That means something to me & would inspire me to endure.
> Recovering from injury is disciplining me to run slow.

Don't you think it should be disciplining to other things as well? I
believe I can appreciate the pull that race has on you, but life in
general and running in particular is still to a great extent about
making choices between mutually excluding things - and it might be more
emotionally and psychologically rewarding _in the long run_ to settle
for something that wouldn't perhaps be so rewarding in the immediate
future.

> I'm feeling great, clocked 78 miles last week...pushing it up to 90
> miles this week and I'm just gonna establish that 90 mpw base (in
> flats). When you run slow (75%) clocking 90-100 mpw does not strike
> as a tall order at all to me. (...)

As I understand it, you returned to running sometime in mid-June after
how many months on the injury list - and now you tell us you're already
up to 78 god damn miles! I do hope you're describing the wild, wild
running life of an entirely fictional alter ego:-)

It may be an easier and simpler affair to return from a muscle tear
than from many other injuries, but it may also be _too_ easy. You only
lose qualities that you don't train and it may not be unsurmountable
difficult to keep training all of the necessary qualities also while
you're reduced to alternative training, but as a rule it takes the
mindset of an elite athlete to do it well. Are you really sure you've
not only taked the talk but walked the walk, so to speak, during those
weeks?

Please remember: it usually takes up to five weeks for the first
_observed_ signs of any overtraining injury to appear; i.e. it's always
too late, chuck, when one realizes the foolishness of one's ways.

It's absolutely true that logging 90+ miles need not be such a big deal
for a 40+ runner - but it's never a bad thing to ask oneself whether
every last mile of that handsome amount is actually producing any
intended training result and whether some of those miles might even be
counterproductive.

It's indeed not all that difficult to run about 12 hrs per week; 1.5
hrs on five, 2.0 hrs on one and 2.5 hrs on one day would do it nicely -
and if you're doing doubles, you may even get to keep bragging rights
to never doing any long ( >1.5 hrs) runs. And you'll quite possibly feel
great, at least for the first one or two, maybe even five weeks - it's
only after that when you can be sure that your (early middle-aged)
ability to recover, considering the amount of rest you're able to get
(and willing to give yourself) and the amount of stress you have in
your daily life, is up to the task your legs now appear to be able to
take.

(A world class marathoner once pointed out that even a completely
untrained person can seek to copy the sleeping habits of an elite
athlete without the lest bit of risk of injury or illness, but that's
about it...)

It could well be that you are the kind of guy who'll always - even with
perfect hindsight - will say to himself "It's ten times better to have
tried 110% and failed time and time again than to have done 90% and
reached 95% of my full potential!" or something to that extent - but as
I see things from here, the light you're seeing is that of the
proverbial freight train coming at you in a tunnel.

If you don't positively disagree with me on that, you still have time
to turn back and get the hell out of there!

Anders

PS Since you let yourself slip a little bit into sheer chatter about
yourself (and apparently let us know that the beginning of the end of
the American real estate boom is in sight), I'll share a small story
with you:

Years ago, when everyone had just sighed with relief that the Eighties
were over, I came upon what would still be (to me and most other
people) a huge pile of money. Since I was a simple country boy and a
shy young man at heart, I couldn't manage to part with much of it
through big spending and I had to invest it wisely. This was the time
when a credit bubble (which had, naturally enough, followed bank
deregulation) had just burst and the early Nineties recession had hit
Finland rather hard and both the real estate and the stock markets had
taken a dive, so it wasn't rocket science to find bargains on either.

So what I did was I bought a large house, which w=E9nt way beyond my
needs (other than trying to prove something to my father), but at that
price it was a steal. With the rest of my bonanza I invested modestly
but very much in all-eggs-in-one-basket kind of way in Nokia, which at
that point in time was doing poorly due to heavy European investments
in computer and television manufacturing under the previous GM and a
very unfunctional and incompetent two-headed current management. The
former were sold to Asian companies and the latter were given golden
parachutes and the rest, as thay say, is history - and the value of the
stock rose almost 200-fold.

The moral of the story is that I now live in a nice house, which - if I
look at it that way, and I cannot say I never do - ended up. less than
ten years later, costing about the same as, say, Madonna's house in
Florida.

So, Lance, are you really sure you want to risk doing something (very,
very loosely) similar with your running?:-)

Date: 10 Jul 2006 21:43:36
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

I've studied psychiatry and seen lots of shrinks. The meds dont work.
The studies that say they work are not scientific. i'm contemplating
writing a book on mental illness.
Believe it or not, Tom Cruise is right about psychiatry. There are a
lot of people who are forced to take these "meds" that do not work.
Most mental illness is caused by social problems: low confidence and
not fitting in.

I dont know there is a difference between A-type personalty and
neuroses. Why do most first borns do better than their siblings at most
sports and academics? The first born begins with higher expectations
and standards. The parents expect more of the eldest child and are more
easily disappointed if the child does not achieve. They begin to feel
good about themselves only when they achieve. The next child in line
has a lot less pressure on them. The first born represents the family
not the second born. The second born becomes more social and feels good
about themselves when they make others feel good rather than achieving.
An A-type person can have lots of confidence and be very socially
competent. I guess a neurotic is someone ugly or stupid or short who
feels inadequate ie woody allen. They may compensate for feelings of
inadequacy by achieving things or they might just slip into a lifetime
of depression.

Doug Freese wrote:
> <seatosummit28@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1152508992.865037.310670@35g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > I'm an extremely neurotic individual. At least one in a thousand. i
> > know more about this subject than anybody. There is no blood test for
> > any of the mental disorders. Noone knows how the brain or physiology
> > of
> > neurotic differs from a normal person. I just use adrenaline as an
> > analogy. My standards, values , expectations, etc are different than a
> > relaxed person but it would be difficult to go into the brain and find
> > structural anolmolies associated with these differences. I would love
> > to relax and sleep one day. I dont think it will happen.
>
> All I see is you analyzing you. When you say "i know more about this
> subject than anybody" you are your own worst enemy. You have yet to
> admit you have ever been to a dor. I know there are meds available
> to help this condition and still exercise. You don't think you are the
> only neurotic person in the world, do you? There is a fine line between
> type A, which we have set of right here in r.r, to neuroses.
>
> This all assumes your not trolling and I think you are.
>
> -DF

Date: 11 Jul 2006 12:06:19
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

<seatosummit28@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1152593016.749521.176710@35g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> I've studied psychiatry and seen lots of shrinks. The meds dont work.

They don't work for you or don't work for everyone, or don't work for
some percent? I realize shrinkology is not an exact science, hell so is
medicine, but I know people that are being helped nicely with meds.
It's well known that is not always easy to find the correct flavor and
dosage and needs constant monitoring. I will agree that meds are
over-prescribed be it mental or physical. Some of this is driven by the
perception. People demand a magic elixir before they leave the office.
The idiot box is inundated by drug companies with ads to solve just
about every malady. Ijust love the ED ads - call the doc if you get a 4
hour tilt in your kilt. My conclusion some help and some don't and to
say they don't, is untrue.

> The studies that say they work are not scientific.

Care you cite one so we can see your plight.

> i'm contemplating writing a book on mental illness.

And the thrust of the book is? We rally need a new fad diet book.
Atkins has fizzled like all the others and South Beach hasn't gained any
momentum. And you credentials are? As far as I can tell you don't
understand the basics of physiology much less mental health. Call us
when you get your advance.

> Believe it or not, Tom Cruise is right about psychiatry. There are a
> lot of people who are forced to take these "meds" that do not work.

Careful about using Tom Cruise as a source of information - it's like
using Liz Taylor as a marriage counselor or Michael Jackson for child
rearing. Ooops, bad play on words.

> Most mental illness is caused by social problems: low confidence and
> not fitting in.

Most? Again, help me with a web page or two to spell this out. Last time
I looked some was social/behavioral, some was genetic and some is
physical and some all of them. You have some definitive study? You have
my interest.
.

> I dont know there is a difference between A-type personalty and
> neuroses.

That's like saying there is no difference between the common cold and
bubonic plague,they both make you fell bad. You really want to claim
that type A:
"relating to, characteristic of, having, or being a personality that is
marked by impatience, aggressiveness, and competitiveness"

and neurosis:
" a mental and emotional disorder that affects only part of the
personality, is accompanied by a less distorted perception of reality
than in a psychosis, does not result in disturbance of the use of
language, and is accompanied by various physical, physiological, and
mental disturbances (as visceral symptoms, anxieties, or phobias)"

are the same or close across the board? You say you studied psychiatry?
In your case I'm leaning to a diagnosis of phycosis:
" fundamental derangement of the mind (as in schizophrenia)
characterized by defective or lost contact with reality especially as
evidenced by delusions, hallucinations, and disorganized speech and
behavior "

> Why do most first borns do better than their siblings at most
> sports and academics? The first born begins with higher expectations
> and standards. The parents expect more of the eldest child and are
> more
> easily disappointed if the child does not achieve. They begin to feel
> good about themselves only when they achieve. The next child in line
> has a lot less pressure on them. The first born represents the family
> not the second born. The second born becomes more social and feels
> good
> about themselves when they make others feel good rather than
> achieving.
> An A-type person can have lots of confidence and be very socially
> competent. I guess a neurotic is someone ugly or stupid or short who
> feels inadequate ie woody allen. They may compensate for feelings of
> inadequacy by achieving things or they might just slip into a lifetime
> of depression.

Woody Allen? Is TV Guide or Entertainment Tonight your source of
information? So, you were the second born and feel abused and why you
are not wrapped tight? Are you claiming all second born experience the
same or just you? Sounds a little delusional, with a hint of
persecution complex or you're trolling without a rudder.

-DF

Date: 12 Jul 2006 00:21:23
From: Phil M.
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

dfreese@hvc.rr.com wrote:

> information? So, you were the second born and feel abused and why you
> are not wrapped tight? Are you claiming all second born experience the
> same or just you? Sounds a little delusional, with a hint of
> persecution complex or you're trolling without a rudder.

I'm the fourth born. No wonder I'm so f*@^#ed up!

--
Phil M.

Date: 03 Jul 2006 14:26:34
From: Tony S.
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

<seatosummit28@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1151726017.302342.267350@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> with a triathlon , you use different muscles. I dont see why people
> want to wear out their joints running to excess. really, it is a form
> of laziness to only run. me, i am kayaking, running, mountain climbing,
> walking, swimming, biking, and weight lifting.

While I love to bike in addition to running and have no problem with
multiple activities, why pick a fight with runners. It's been boring in
here, so it's not all bad I guess. In terms of joints, running can be good
for them depending on your age and previous conditions. My joints are still
my limiting factor, but they're stronger and healthier as a result of more
running over the past 3 years, including a definite improvement in what I
thought was an arthritic hip, which I now know is just chronically
misaligned. Running will reveal your physical problems better than any other
activity I've found - and this is a good thing. If you have problems, it's
not always due to excess training. It can point to skeletal dysfunction and
misalignments anywhere in your body.

From "Pain Free" by Pete Egoscue, page 214

"The Importance of Impact

"All of our joints are designed to be loaded and to receive impact. Even
when
we are sleeping, gravity is pressing down on our musculoskeletal structures.
Walking, running, and jumping intensify the load, but that's all right. A
functional joint is equipped with rugged mechanisms that help it handle many
multiples of the body's total weight as the feet come into contact with the
surface of the earth. The eight main load-bearing joints all have muscles
that are prime movers and muscles that act as stabilizers during movement.
But as our joints become unstable due to misalignment, these mechanisms are
corrupted. The stabilizers can't do their jobs completely. When impact
occurs, the joint is clobbered in an unstable position. Even so, the
stabilizers don't quit entirely. As long as there is loading and impact,
they deploy and do their best.

"This caveat -"as long as there is loading and impact"- is crucial. The
search for low-impact sports and exercise equipment is undermining
musculoskeletal function and overall health. I recently saw an ad for a
stationary bike-treadmill-skier that suspends the rider in midair using an
elaborate frame and stilt like handles for support. "Your feet never touch
the ground," the ad proclaims. The idea is to eliminate all impact. What's
happening, though, is that the machine takes an already unstable joint
through a range of motion with its stabilizer muscles deliberately switched
off. The less impact, the less stabilizer engagement - and the more joint
instability. Machines like that one weaken the stabilizer muscles while
strengthening the prime movers, to propel an unstable joint through an
increased range of motion. This "conditioning" process sends the individual
back to the real world to walk, to run -to move- with acutely unstable
joints that have been conditioned for a low - or no impact environment,
which doesn't exist short of a coffin.

"No matter what the sport or activity, joint instability will take a toll in
performance limitations and pain. Swapping your running shoes for a bike, as
an example, only serves to change the type of demand that's being put on the
unstable mechanisms. It may mask symptoms or postpone the onset of pain, but
the dysfunctions are still grinding away.

"Golf and tennis are prime examples. Both sports are increasingly being
played by the equipment rather than by players. Technological advances in
both golf clubs and tennis rackets allow athletes to hit the ball harder and
with greater accuracy than was possible just ten years ago. It's easier than
ever to get a blistering serve over the net or send a ball straight down a
fairway. This improvement in speed, distance, and accuracy has little to do
with athletic ability, and nothing at all to do with causing tennis and golf
injuries. On the contrary, this fabulous new equipment allows players to do
more and more with less and less function. Without the new clubs and
rackets, pain symptoms would appear much sooner...

[Sidebar] "CHRONIC PAIN AS A VARSITY LETTER

"It used to be that people chose a sport or activity to suit their interests
or talent. Increasingly, many of us make the decision based on what works
with our dysfunctions. This ends up strengthening the very processes that
are causing the chronic pain that we hoped the activity would help us
avoid".

-Tony

Date: 04 Jul 2006 00:57:59
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

Well, in my case, only running injures me. And I dont run very much.
Dot wrote:
> seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > how can you injure yourself paddling? how can you injure yourself
> > mountain biking? how can you injure yourself running when 50 percent of
> > the time you are hiking the steep hills? I can hike forever and not get
> > injured. it is running that causes my injuries.
> > onemarathon wrote:
>
> All activities can have overuse injuries. All activities can also have
> traumatic injuries. There's reasons some races have ambulances or rescue
> squads nearby. Esp. for mtn bike races or duathlons. There's a reason
> people wear helments while biking, paddling (kayaking or canoeing),
> climbing, etc. The rocks are hard - no matter how you encounter them.
>
> You'll see as you expand your horizons - or have friends that do these
> things competitively.
>
> --
> Mount Marathon, Alaska's premier running (loose use of term) race and
> source of many best blood pictures, is tomorrow, July 4.

Date: 04 Jul 2006 16:14:15
From: Dot
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running

seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:
> Well, in my case, only running injures me. And I dont run very much.

As others have said, you need to learn to run and how to train.

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Date: 06 Jul 2006 14:06:28
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net > wrote in message
news:rtwqg.92169$mF2.14187@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> seatosummit28@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Well, in my case, only running injures me. And I dont run very much.
>
> As others have said, you need to learn to run and how to train.

I get the feeling that we are talking to a wall or subtle troller. Until
he gets smarter(does some real homework) he will keep going in circles -
his choice. I'm starting to believe we are being had. Seatosumit will
be going to the summit on the seat of his pants.

-DF

Date: 04 Jul 2006 00:55:18
From:
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

Interesting but i think my point that running is more likely to cause
injuries is valid.
My shins hurt like the dickens and i dont think that has to do with
misalignment.

Tony S. wrote:
> <seatosummit28@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1151726017.302342.267350@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > with a triathlon , you use different muscles. I dont see why people
> > want to wear out their joints running to excess. really, it is a form
> > of laziness to only run. me, i am kayaking, running, mountain climbing,
> > walking, swimming, biking, and weight lifting.
>
> While I love to bike in addition to running and have no problem with
> multiple activities, why pick a fight with runners. It's been boring in
> here, so it's not all bad I guess. In terms of joints, running can be good
> for them depending on your age and previous conditions. My joints are still
> my limiting factor, but they're stronger and healthier as a result of more
> running over the past 3 years, including a definite improvement in what I
> thought was an arthritic hip, which I now know is just chronically
> misaligned. Running will reveal your physical problems better than any other
> activity I've found - and this is a good thing. If you have problems, it's
> not always due to excess training. It can point to skeletal dysfunction and
> misalignments anywhere in your body.
>
> From "Pain Free" by Pete Egoscue, page 214
>
> "The Importance of Impact
>
> "All of our joints are designed to be loaded and to receive impact. Even
> when
> we are sleeping, gravity is pressing down on our musculoskeletal structures.
> Walking, running, and jumping intensify the load, but that's all right. A
> functional joint is equipped with rugged mechanisms that help it handle many
> multiples of the body's total weight as the feet come into contact with the
> surface of the earth. The eight main load-bearing joints all have muscles
> that are prime movers and muscles that act as stabilizers during movement.
> But as our joints become unstable due to misalignment, these mechanisms are
> corrupted. The stabilizers can't do their jobs completely. When impact
> occurs, the joint is clobbered in an unstable position. Even so, the
> stabilizers don't quit entirely. As long as there is loading and impact,
> they deploy and do their best.
>
> "This caveat -"as long as there is loading and impact"- is crucial. The
> search for low-impact sports and exercise equipment is undermining
> musculoskeletal function and overall health. I recently saw an ad for a
> stationary bike-treadmill-skier that suspends the rider in midair using an
> elaborate frame and stilt like handles for support. "Your feet never touch
> the ground," the ad proclaims. The idea is to eliminate all impact. What's
> happening, though, is that the machine takes an already unstable joint
> through a range of motion with its stabilizer muscles deliberately switched
> off. The less impact, the less stabilizer engagement - and the more joint
> instability. Machines like that one weaken the stabilizer muscles while
> strengthening the prime movers, to propel an unstable joint through an
> increased range of motion. This "conditioning" process sends the individual
> back to the real world to walk, to run -to move- with acutely unstable
> joints that have been conditioned for a low - or no impact environment,
> which doesn't exist short of a coffin.
>
> "No matter what the sport or activity, joint instability will take a toll in
> performance limitations and pain. Swapping your running shoes for a bike, as
> an example, only serves to change the type of demand that's being put on the
> unstable mechanisms. It may mask symptoms or postpone the onset of pain, but
> the dysfunctions are still grinding away.
>
> "Golf and tennis are prime examples. Both sports are increasingly being
> played by the equipment rather than by players. Technological advances in
> both golf clubs and tennis rackets allow athletes to hit the ball harder and
> with greater accuracy than was possible just ten years ago. It's easier than
> ever to get a blistering serve over the net or send a ball straight down a
> fairway. This improvement in speed, distance, and accuracy has little to do
> with athletic ability, and nothing at all to do with causing tennis and golf
> injuries. On the contrary, this fabulous new equipment allows players to do
> more and more with less and less function. Without the new clubs and
> rackets, pain symptoms would appear much sooner...
>
> [Sidebar] "CHRONIC PAIN AS A VARSITY LETTER
>
> "It used to be that people chose a sport or activity to suit their interests
> or talent. Increasingly, many of us make the decision based on what works
> with our dysfunctions. This ends up strengthening the very processes that
> are causing the chronic pain that we hoped the activity would help us
> avoid".
>
> -Tony

Date: 04 Jul 2006 13:46:59
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

<seatosummit28@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1151999717.938467.252100@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Interesting but i think my point that running is more likely to cause
> injuries is valid.

Doing to much to soon in any sport will cause injuries. It's not cause
and effect but lack of knowledge to control how much is too much.

> My shins hurt like the dickens and i dont think that has to do with
> misalignment.

Of course not and I'm sure you have heavily referenced shin splints. In
case your doing more self diagnosis try "shin splints" in you favorite
search engine, or take a gander at
http://www.drpribut.com/sports/spshin.html for starters

========

Key Causes

The key factors to correct will be:
Tight posterior muscles
Imbalance between the posterior and anterior muscles
Running on concrete or other hard surfaces
Improper Shoes - inadequate shock protection
Overtraining

============

I'm sure you have exhausted all the above and concluded it's none of
these.

-DF

Date: 04 Jul 2006 13:29:24
From: Tony S.
Subject: Re: triathons or adventure racing is better for you than running marathons

<seatosummit28@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1151999717.938467.252100@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Interesting but i think my point that running is more likely to cause
> injuries is valid.
> My shins hurt like the dickens and i dont think that has to do with
> misalignment.

You said in another reply that you don't run very much, and in many places
that you always go all-out. Well duh! If you don't condition your body with
base miles how can you expect it to hold up to the shock of what are
ballistic efforts to the body, done infrequently. The the point of my reply
is that loading (consistent training) and proper alignment will make you
overall stronger and able to run not only more, but harder - and runners who
train consistently know this.

-Tony

> Tony S. wrote:
> > <seatosummit28@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1151726017.302342.267350@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > > with a triathlo