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Main
Date: 19 Aug 2006 00:26:54
From: j
Subject: sprain-free trail shoes ?
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Hello,
what's the state of the art in shoes that would prevent a 90-degree
sprain ?
Many people say it's incompatible to have trail-running properties AND
some device to control a brutal swing.
I think it's questionable.
JFD, with a cast (second sprain-with-fracture; one on each foot)
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Date: 19 Aug 2006 00:44:55
From: Dot
Subject: Re: sprain-free trail shoes ?
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j wrote:
> Hello,
>
> what's the state of the art in shoes that would prevent a 90-degree
> sprain ?
I'm assuming you are referring to lateral 90-deg. Ahh, you might already
have the fool-proof version = a cast.
>
> Many people say it's incompatible to have trail-running properties AND
> some device to control a brutal swing.
>
Not sure what you are saying. One approach to reduce probability of
sprains is to increase foot / ankle strength and proprioception. Another
is to tape ankles so they don't roll laterally but have full back /
forward movement. And you can start with easy trails and work your way
up to more technical trails.
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
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Date: 19 Aug 2006 21:20:13
From: j
Subject: Re: sprain-free trail shoes ?
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Dot wrote:
> j wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> what's the state of the art in shoes that would prevent a 90-degree
>> sprain ?
>
>
> I'm assuming you are referring to lateral 90-deg. Ahh, you might already
> have the fool-proof version = a cast.
>
>>
>> Many people say it's incompatible to have trail-running properties
>> AND some device to control a brutal swing.
>>
> Not sure what you are saying. One approach to reduce probability of
> sprains is to increase foot / ankle strength and proprioception. Another
> is to tape ankles so they don't roll laterally but have full back /
> forward movement. And you can start with easy trails and work your way
> up to more technical trails.
>
> Dot
>
Sorry. Clarifying: second time in six years !
I have good proprioception; I had just been running down 1400 m in the
Pyrénées (Course des Fiancés; 35 km overall, i.e. some 20 miles)
(I did it last year in the other direction, without even a hint of a sprain)
I was tired, a bit pissed by having to run the extra mile through woods
instead of running home on tarmac.
One is necessarily somewhat exposed on trail ground, I suppose,
but I'd like to have more protection.
#
Taping ?
Strapping ?
Being very mental (focused) on responsiveness ?
Note: I run trails with Vasque
and easy ground with Asics Kayano
I'm generally on easy ground (I do triathlon)
I had switched shoes (Vasque - > Kayano) for the final part of the race,
because of the 4 miles on downward slope on tarmac
JF, Paris and Maubourguet (Pyrénées)
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 04:11:33
From: Dot
Subject: Re: sprain-free trail shoes ?
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j wrote:
> Dot wrote:
>
>> j wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> what's the state of the art in shoes that would prevent a 90-degree
>>> sprain ?
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm assuming you are referring to lateral 90-deg. Ahh, you might
>> already have the fool-proof version = a cast.
>>
>>>
>>> Many people say it's incompatible to have trail-running properties
>>> AND some device to control a brutal swing.
>>>
>> Not sure what you are saying. One approach to reduce probability of
>> sprains is to increase foot / ankle strength and proprioception.
>> Another is to tape ankles so they don't roll laterally but have full
>> back / forward movement. And you can start with easy trails and work
>> your way up to more technical trails.
>>
>> Dot
>>
>
>
> Sorry. Clarifying: second time in six years !
>
> I have good proprioception; I had just been running down 1400 m in the
> Pyrénées (Course des Fiancés; 35 km overall, i.e. some 20 miles)
> (I did it last year in the other direction, without even a hint of a
> sprain)
> I was tired, a bit pissed by having to run the extra mile through woods
> instead of running home on tarmac.
>
> One is necessarily somewhat exposed on trail ground, I suppose,
> but I'd like to have more protection.
Maybe you needed to focus on running more?
>
> #
> Taping ?
> Strapping ?
> Being very mental (focused) on responsiveness ?
>
> Note: I run trails with Vasque
> and easy ground with Asics Kayano
> I'm generally on easy ground (I do triathlon)
>
> I had switched shoes (Vasque -> Kayano) for the final part of the race,
> because of the 4 miles on downward slope on tarmac
>
http://tinyurl.com/nrozn
I usually do steps 2 and 3 (with a non-stretch tape), but not the others:
http://tinyurl.com/pu4ae
That limits lateral movement, but still allows forward/backward
flexibility needed for steep hills and general running. If running in
wet conditions (stream crossings, rain), I'll use tincture of benzoin to
help it adhere better (but the jury's still out for me on how well that
works - it's what was recommended to me).
This suggests that taping doesn't help.
http://tinyurl.com/oa836
I would also increase foot / ankle strength and proprioception. If
you've twisted your ankles sufficiently that you need a cast (unless it
was a freak twist on rolling rock or whatever), there's plenty of room
for improvement in strength and proprioception, IMHO - perhaps more
endurance in those aspects, if it was end of race and you were tired.
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 04:39:43
From: Dot
Subject: Re: sprain-free trail shoes ?
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I should have added that I generally only tape for races, so I can
maintain / improve strength the other times - and it's a pain to do.
--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
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Date: 18 Aug 2006 23:25:21
From: Tony S.
Subject: Re: sprain-free trail shoes ?
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"j" <j@ici.la > wrote in message
news:44e63eb1$0$10230$626a54ce@news.free.fr...
> Hello,
>
> what's the state of the art in shoes that would prevent a 90-degree
> sprain ?
>
> Many people say it's incompatible to have trail-running properties AND
> some device to control a brutal swing.
>
> I think it's questionable.
>
> JFD, with a cast (second sprain-with-fracture; one on each foot)
What are trail-running properties? If your ankles are that bad, get some
light hiking boots; a buddy of mine used to do that. So how did you mess up
both so bad at one time? Methinks you're a troll because of that.
The main thing is to really watch where you plant your feet, and to develop
a reflex that enables you to take your weight off a failed foot-plant before
it does any damage. The body drops and the weight is caught with the other
foot on the next stride. I've even had it happen on 2 consecutive
footstrikes and I ended up in a crouch and then rolled out of it -- without
any damage to my ankles however. It takes practice to the point of it
becoming a reflex.
-Tony
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Date: 19 Aug 2006 03:47:51
From: Dan Stumpus
Subject: Re: sprain-free trail shoes ?
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> what's the state of the art in shoes that would prevent a 90-degree
> sprain ?
>
> Many people say it's incompatible to have trail-running properties AND
> some device to control a brutal swing.
Have you tried taping your ankles? Many pro athletes do this to avoid
sprains.
I sprained both ankles in a race once, and during the healing process I
found taping to be highly beneficial. Instead of living in terror of
re-spraining my ankles, I felt secure -- as if I had super-hero bionic
ligaments.
After my ankles fully healed (about 6-7 weeks), I was able to go back to
tape-less running.
There are several sites on the internet with sequential pictures of the
technique.
As Dot mentions, strengthing and exercises may help prevent future sprains.
But taping will at least get you back in the game quickly.
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 15:23:14
From: j
Subject: Re: sprain-free trail shoes ?
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Dan Stumpus wrote:
>> what's the state of the art in shoes that would prevent a 90-degree
>>sprain ?
>>
>> Many people say it's incompatible to have trail-running properties AND
>>some device to control a brutal swing.
>
>
>
> Have you tried taping your ankles? Many pro athletes do this to avoid
> sprains.
> I sprained both ankles in a race once, and during the healing process I
> found taping to be highly beneficial. Instead of living in terror of
> re-spraining my ankles, I felt secure -- as if I had super-hero bionic
> ligaments.
>
> After my ankles fully healed (about 6-7 weeks), I was able to go back to
> tape-less running.
>
> There are several sites on the internet with sequential pictures of the
> technique.
>
> As Dot mentions, strengthing and exercises may help prevent future sprains.
> But taping will at least get you back in the game quickly.
>
>
Thanks to Dan and Dot
Is there a technical difference between taping and strapping ?
What about using a pre-formed ankle support device ?
(shape of the foot, or two ruler-shaped plastic linings, on either side
of the foot upward)
JF
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 16:42:14
From: Dan Stumpus
Subject: Re: sprain-free trail shoes ?
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"j" <j@ici.la > wrote
> Is there a technical difference between taping and strapping ?
>
> What about using a pre-formed ankle support device ?
> (shape of the foot, or two ruler-shaped plastic linings, on either side of
> the foot upward)
I did look into that device, but I tried the low-tech taping method first,
and was so satisfied that I never ordered it.
It's probably a lot quicker to put the strap on, and if it something you'll
want to do every day, maybe it's the way to go. I had questions about it
affecting the shoe fit, though.
-- Dan
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Date: 21 Aug 2006 06:28:10
From: Dot
Subject: Re: sprain-free trail shoes ?
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j wrote:
>
> Is there a technical difference between taping and strapping ?
They're either used interchangeably or I can't figure the difference
from the various web pages.
>
> What about using a pre-formed ankle support device ?
> (shape of the foot, or two ruler-shaped plastic linings, on either side
> of the foot upward)
>
No idea, but I'd be afraid of limiting motion.
Another thought to help on downhills is to run with your toes pointed
out some. Most sprains seem to happen from inversion, rather than
eversion, and this reduces that chance.
http://www.webmd.com/hw/health_guide_atoz/zm2754.asp?printing=true
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
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Date: 19 Aug 2006 22:43:33
From: bagpip
Subject: Re: sprain-free trail shoes ?
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Adidas CC Cardrona, the best shoe ever made.
"j" <j@ici.la > wrote in message
news:44e63eb1$0$10230$626a54ce@news.free.fr...
> Hello,
>
> what's the state of the art in shoes that would prevent a 90-degree
> sprain ?
>
> Many people say it's incompatible to have trail-running properties AND
> some device to control a brutal swing.
>
> I think it's questionable.
>
>
> JFD, with a cast (second sprain-with-fracture; one on each foot)
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