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Date: 16 Mar 2006 02:41:14
From: Esmail Bonakdarian
Subject: running in the cold & shin splints??
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Hello all,
It seems that when I run on a cold day (freezing or below) my legs hurt
afterwards. Ie I have some soreness in shins.
I suspect this is because the ground is harder than usual (I ordinarily
try to run on grass, which then is frozen). I have also read that the midsoles
on shoes loose a considerable amount of their cushioning (sp?) characteristics
in the cold.
Just curious if anyone else has had a similar experience or observation?
Esmail
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Date: 15 Mar 2006 20:03:59
From: Twittering One
Subject: Re: running in the cold & shin splints??
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Likely your legs are less limber,
and you pounding harder, less spring
resiliance in your muscles,
therefore, your bones are taking the stress.
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Date: 15 Mar 2006 22:03:57
From: Charlie Pendejo
Subject: Re: running in the cold & shin splints??
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Esmail Bonakdarian wrote:
> It seems that when I run on a cold day (freezing or below) my legs hurt
> afterwards. Ie I have some soreness in shins.
>
> I suspect this is because the ground is harder than usual (I ordinarily
> try to run on grass, which then is frozen). I have also read that the
> midsoles
> on shoes loose a considerable amount of their cushioning
In addition to the ground and shoes being less cushy, your leg muscles might
also be stiffer in the cold. Do you do any sort of warmup inside before
heading out? Do you dress to keep your legs warm?
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Date: 16 Mar 2006 03:14:32
From: Esmail Bonakdarian
Subject: Re: running in the cold & shin splints??
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Charlie Pendejo wrote:
>
>
> In addition to the ground and shoes being less cushy, your leg muscles might
> also be stiffer in the cold. Do you do any sort of warmup inside before
> heading out? Do you dress to keep your legs warm?
Hi,
Yes, I definetly dress warm, but I don't do any sort of warmup really
before I head out. I'm bad, I never do it, but perhaps it would be
helpful in the colder weather? My reasoning was that since I'm all
warm inside the house before I leave, and dress in layers I am good
to go, but perhaps not.
Maybe I'll give this a try tomorrow .. another cold spell ..
Esmail
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Date: 16 Mar 2006 06:58:34
From: Dot
Subject: Re: running in the cold & shin splints??
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Esmail Bonakdarian wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> It seems that when I run on a cold day (freezing or below) my legs hurt
> afterwards. Ie I have some soreness in shins.
>
> I suspect this is because the ground is harder than usual (I ordinarily
> try to run on grass, which then is frozen).
Frozen grass usually provides a cushion over frozen ground or ice. At
least *my* frozen grass does - hayfield, usually harvested to a few
inches, frequently with farm equipment tire tracks through the grass to
make a "relatively" easy pathway.
What *is* very hard is ice, esp. you wear ice joggers or stabilicers on
it. That will frequently bother my shins, so I generally avoid those
conditions for anything except short patches.
> I have also read that the
> midsoles
> on shoes loose a considerable amount of their cushioning (sp?)
> characteristics
> in the cold.
They may, but it probably depends on the midsole construction and tread
design and may be more anecdotal than documented with numbers at this
point. Testers seem to focus on heat effects and forget about the cold
end. (There was a thread on this in another ng, but can't find it.)
>
> Just curious if anyone else has had a similar experience or observation?
>
Like Charlie suggested, try warming up before you head out - be sure to
loosen your muscles and be sure that all systems are go.
Also, are you a heel striker or mid-foot striker? Mid-foot may help with
shock absorption and is certainly a lot safer if there's ice around.
Do you have problems with not dorsiflexing your ankles? I have weak
shins that may be related to tight calves, but I've found that if my
shins start bothering me while running, if I emphasize the dorsiflexion
while in swing phase, it helps almost immediately. I do toe raises daily
to strengthen, but I need to do something more aggressive, like with
light weights. Walking on heels also helps to strengthen shins and
stretch calves.
Or the best solution, imho, is to find some soft snow to snowshoe run on. ;)
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
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Date: 16 Mar 2006 07:45:12
From: Charlie Pendejo
Subject: Re: running in the cold & shin splints??
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Dot wrote:
> I've found that if my shins start bothering me while running,
> if I emphasize the dorsiflexion while in swing phase, it helps
> almost immediately.
Ah right, Dot, you reminded me that for a week or two early on in my road
running life I too had a bit of shin soreness.
My cure was prescribed by Dr. Ozzie: make sure you relax the toes of your
planted foot, don't claw with them. To grok "claw" - stand still and lean
forward, and you'll dig your toes into the ground like claws to prevent you
from falling forward. Don't do this while running.
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Date: 16 Mar 2006 15:54:40
From: Dan Stumpus
Subject: Re: running in the cold & shin splints??
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"Charlie Pendejo" <charlie.pendejo@gmail.com > wrote
> My cure was prescribed by Dr. Ozzie: make sure you relax the toes of your
> planted foot, don't claw with them. To grok "claw" - stand still and lean
> forward, and you'll dig your toes into the ground like claws to prevent
> you from falling forward. Don't do this while running.
And yet...I heard a 2:14 marathoner speak once, and he said the essence of a
quick efficient stride was to flick (claw) with your toes at the
push-off...not to do so would be like a pitcher releasing a fastball from
his palm.
I think as one progresses from "jogging" to "running" to "racing" that the
Claw makes its appearance...
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Date: 16 Mar 2006 23:32:50
From: Charlie Pendejo
Subject: Re: running in the cold & shin splints??
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Dan wrote:
> I heard a 2:14 marathoner speak once, and he said the essence of a quick
> efficient stride was to flick (claw) with your toes at the push-off...not
> to do so would be like a pitcher releasing a fastball from his palm.
Hmmm, interesting.
I guess you didn't take him for a 2:08 guy who lost :15/mi because of shitty
technique?
I will certainly take that into consideration. Along with all the other
mutually contradictory instructions on "proper running mechanics".
> I think as one progresses from "jogging" to "running" to "racing" that the
> Claw makes its appearance...
OK, there's The Claw but how about The Garden Weasel? ;-)
Pendejo, who feels like these last few weeks he's definitely progressing
from "jogging" to "running"... and hoping the next step isn't "recovering
(from injury)"
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Date: 17 Mar 2006 00:00:42
From: Esmail Bonakdarian
Subject: Re: running in the cold & shin splints??
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Charlie Pendejo wrote:
>
> My cure was prescribed by Dr. Ozzie: make sure you relax the toes of your
> planted foot, don't claw with them. To grok "claw" - stand still and lean
> forward, and you'll dig your toes into the ground like claws to prevent you
> from falling forward. Don't do this while running.
hmm .. I'll have to see if I do that when I run, I don't think I do, but
then maybe I do. Sometimes while running I realize that my hands are
tightened into a fist, and I have to consciously relax them.
good advice here ..
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Date: 16 Mar 2006 23:15:35
From:
Subject: Re: running in the cold & shin splints??
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On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 00:00:42 GMT, Esmail Bonakdarian
<ebonak-a@t-hotmail.com > wrote:
> Sometimes while running I realize that my hands are
>tightened into a fist, and I have to consciously relax them.
You too? I can't recall how many times that's happened to me. I'm
running and then realize my hands are clenched tightly into fists, and
the blood is dripping off them onto my shorts. I've learned to wear
surgical gloves when I grind up the bodys.
Bill Rogers
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Date: 17 Mar 2006 08:28:57
From: Dot
Subject: Re: running in the cold & shin splints??
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Charlie Pendejo wrote:
> Dot wrote:
>
>>I've found that if my shins start bothering me while running,
>>if I emphasize the dorsiflexion while in swing phase, it helps
>>almost immediately.
>
>
> Ah right, Dot, you reminded me that for a week or two early on in my road
> running life I too had a bit of shin soreness.
>
> My cure was prescribed by Dr. Ozzie: make sure you relax the toes of your
> planted foot, don't claw with them. To grok "claw" - stand still and lean
> forward, and you'll dig your toes into the ground like claws to prevent you
> from falling forward. Don't do this while running.
>
Perhaps my dorsiflexing is relaxing the toes? But I don't think I claw -
or at least it's not related to the shins - since I tend to make sure I
can wiggle my toes in my shoes (during swing) in cold weather, a drill
my PT had me do was leaning forward from ankles and touching wall with
belly button (if I'm too far out from wall, I do claw, but not if
close), and a number of barefoot running drills.
For me, now, the shin issue may occur slightly maybe a couple times a
year for 1 or 2 runs - usually when I've slacked off some of my drills.
Reinstate drills, shin pain goes away. Also, accentuating the
dorsiflexion, makes it disappear on a run within a couple steps. It's
usually outer part of shin below knee cap.
My tibialis anterior is weak, though, and calves are tight, and it
affects some of the drills in my xt class, so that's why I point there
for me. That's why I'm also thinking using light weights for toe raises
and some additional drills for prevention.
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
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Date: 16 Mar 2006 23:53:53
From: Esmail Bonakdarian
Subject: Re: running in the cold & shin splints??
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Hi Dot,
> Like Charlie suggested, try warming up before you head out - be sure to
> loosen your muscles and be sure that all systems are go.
Yes, I think I will definitely try that -- I didn't go for a run today
to give my legs a rest.
> Also, are you a heel striker or mid-foot striker? Mid-foot may help with
> shock absorption and is certainly a lot safer if there's ice around.
Hmm .. I'm not sure if I'm a heel striker or mid-foot striker ..
how can I tell? Wouldn't the foot ordinarily come down on the heel?
> Do you have problems with not dorsiflexing your ankles?
I had to look up "dorsiflexing" .. you mean bending up the foot right?
That works fine ..
> I have weak
> shins that may be related to tight calves, but I've found that if my
> shins start bothering me while running, if I emphasize the dorsiflexion
> while in swing phase,
Can you explain this a bit more ..
> it helps almost immediately. I do toe raises daily
> to strengthen, but I need to do something more aggressive, like with
> light weights. Walking on heels also helps to strengthen shins and
> stretch calves.
I will give this a try .. thanks.
Esmail
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Date: 17 Mar 2006 08:29:34
From: Dot
Subject: Re: running in the cold & shin splints??
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Esmail Bonakdarian wrote:
> Hi Dot,
>
>> Like Charlie suggested, try warming up before you head out - be sure
>> to loosen your muscles and be sure that all systems are go.
>
>
> Yes, I think I will definitely try that -- I didn't go for a run today
> to give my legs a rest.
>
>> Also, are you a heel striker or mid-foot striker? Mid-foot may help
>> with shock absorption and is certainly a lot safer if there's ice around.
>
>
> Hmm .. I'm not sure if I'm a heel striker or mid-foot striker ..
> how can I tell? Wouldn't the foot ordinarily come down on the heel?
If you're running and landing hard on heel, you may be overstriding or
braking so you slow down. Some people touch lightly on the heel with
center-of-gravity close to being over feet, and that's probably ok.
Think about walking on a wet pool tile deck (barefoot) or on ice. Do you
land heel first or toe? Most people will tend to walk on toes for shock
absorption and/or control.
Something you may consider is how many steps / min you take while
running - count every time your right leg hits. Many people seem to hit
about 90 times / min (or 180 if you count both legs) - some a little
slower, some a little faster (some a lot faster if running fast). Many
beginners may be closer to, say, 80 times/min (160 for both legs) or
slower. If you quicken the number of footsteps you take, you'll find
your stride will shorten and you'll spend less time airborne. This will
likely reduce impacts on landing.
>
>> Do you have problems with not dorsiflexing your ankles?
>
>
> I had to look up "dorsiflexing" .. you mean bending up the foot right?
> That works fine ..
Correct.
>
>> I have weak shins that may be related to tight calves, but I've found
>> that if my shins start bothering me while running, if I emphasize the
>> dorsiflexion while in swing phase,
>
>
> Can you explain this a bit more ..
Think of leg muscles and tendons starting near front of knee, going down
to feet, under feet, and up the backside of lower leg. When you
dorsiflex your toes (point them upward toward your knee), your shin
(anterior tibialis and some others) contract, and calf muscles (soleus,
gastroc, and some others) lengthen. There's a bunch of things on top
foot that also contract, and on the bottom that also expand. The
symptoms of weak shins (inability to dorsiflex adequately - or at least
needing to remember to do it) may be related to tight calves resisting
the expansion.
Basically, the rare times that I may start feeling something in the shin
(for me, it's usually the upper, outer part below the knee), if I bend
my toes toward my knee while that foot is in the air (like cocking it),
the problem goes away within a couple steps.
But, I know from a PT analysis that I have weak shins, drills that I do
in cross-training class may really challenge those muscles, etc. So this
may or may not be your problem. Just offering suggestions, esp. since
the first time I had the problem it was in snow about 4 yr ago.
>
>> it helps almost immediately. I do toe raises daily to strengthen, but
>> I need to do something more aggressive, like with light weights.
>> Walking on heels also helps to strengthen shins and stretch calves.
>
>
> I will give this a try .. thanks.
>
> Esmail
Good luck.
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
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