rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

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Date: 08 Aug 2006 11:57:39
From: oregonchick
Subject: rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

I'm assuming that up to a point, just plain old water is fine for
rehydrating during exercise. At what point do you need to start adding in
electrolytes? I am regularly doing cardio for 1 hr or more - the kind of
cardio where I sweat a ton, no froo froo stuff. And then there's the
running and bike riding and hiking, that tend to be for much longer
stretches. Does it depend on how much you're sweating and for how long? I
recently did a bike ride that was 5 hrs long, and afterwards thought about
next time maybe filling my camelback with half gatorade and half water.
What are the signs that your electrolytes are off?

Betsy

Date: 08 Aug 2006 16:36:57
From: Kaz Kylheku
Subject: Re: rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

oregonchick wrote:
> I'm assuming that up to a point, just plain old water is fine for
> rehydrating during exercise. At what point do you need to start adding in
> electrolytes?

When it's hot weather and you've been at it for several hours.

> Does it depend on how much you're sweating and for how long?

Of course.

> I recently did a bike ride that was 5 hrs long, and afterwards thought about
> next time maybe filling my camelback with half gatorade and half water.

Gatorpiss is nothing more than a non-carbonated soft drink cleverly
marketed as something related to athletics.

The glucose-fructose sweetener it contains is quite wrong for exercise.
You want to be taking in glucose only. Fructose upsets some stomachs,
and cannot be utilized by muscle cells.

As far as sodium and potassium go, a much better source for these is a
vegetable cocktail like V8. Read the label.

8 oz of Gatorade has 90 calories, 110 mg of sodium and 30 mg of
potassium.

8 oz of V8 has 50 calories, 590 mg of sodium and 470 mg of potassium.
(The low-sodium version has 140 mg of sodium).

It also has some protein, dietary fiber, vitamins and a bit of calcium
and iron.

Gatorpiss has none of these at all.

[Sources: V8 and Gatorade websites.]

> What are the signs that your electrolytes are off?

Weakness, fatigue, cramps. Possibly nausea, vomiting.

Date: 08 Aug 2006 13:30:15
From: John B.
Subject: Re: rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

Date: 08 Aug 2006 13:56:44
From: Beginning runner
Subject: Re: rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

In article <1155069015.842485.60580@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com >,
"John B." <johnb505@gmail.com > wrote:

> You have it about right. Generally, the longer your workout, the more
> you need Gatorade or something like it during the later stages. For
> example, when running a marathon, I drink all water during the first
> 10-12 miles, then mix it with Gatorade to 18 or 20, then drink all
> Gatorade up to the finish.

A friend of mine says one should use an electrolyte replenisher from the
get go, regardless of the distance.

Date: 17 Aug 2006 18:33:13
From: Robert Grumbine
Subject: Re: rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

In article <bogus-51D4CE.13564408082006@news.west.cox.net >,
Beginning runner <bogus@invalid.com > wrote:
>In article <1155069015.842485.60580@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> "John B." <johnb505@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You have it about right. Generally, the longer your workout, the more
>> you need Gatorade or something like it during the later stages. For
>> example, when running a marathon, I drink all water during the first
>> 10-12 miles, then mix it with Gatorade to 18 or 20, then drink all
>> Gatorade up to the finish.
>
>A friend of mine says one should use an electrolyte replenisher from the
>get go, regardless of the distance.

This is something to experiment with, as is which electrolyte-bearing
fluid to drink.

As you're a beginner, a little more elaboration. Congratulations,
by the way, and good luck, on getting started.

One thing is, for almost all questions about running, the answer is
'It varies'. Answers which present absolutes should be viewed with
great caution.

For fluidizing, it varies. I have a friend who ran a marathon (for
him, about 3:20 that day) during Ramadan and took no fluids at all,
much less electrolyte replacement. Finished fine and in good health.
I'd never try such a thing myself and would be thoroughly toasted
long before 3:20 if I did.

My rule of thumb -- which works ok for me, but you're not me --
is that for runs over 60 minutes, I need to get electrolytes. If
I'm doing such a run, I start with electrolyte replacement (in
accord with your friend's advice). If the run is under about 60
minutes, then straight water works fine for me. If it's a hot
humid day, I'll make it about 40 minutes that I turn over to electrolytes.
Runs under about 30-40 minutes, I skip fluids during the run, barring
extreme weather.

Now that's for me. The way I've worked out that these are my
times for fluidizing, and for doing electrolytes, is by personal
experiment -- recording what I did and how I felt in my running
log, over a period of a couple of summers. The thing to look for
in the log is not so much how you felt on the day you did the run,
but how you recovered the day or two after. When I started doing
90 minute runs, I did them in hot and humid weather with no fluids
(much less electrolytes) during the run. I didn't notice 'much'
at the time, just 'a bit' of slowing down after 70-ish minutes. But
my recovery was terrible. It'd be 2-3 days before I could run
decently again. By fluidizing properly, I could run easily the
next day. Huge contrast.

w.r.t the schedule of switching from straight water early in the
run (marathon) to straight gatorade late ... this is physiologically
backwards. Your body takes time to process what you ingest. If
you're going to need something beyond the water, start with it early
so that it has a chance to process into your system. If you need
salt at 3:30, you need to ingest it before, say, 3:00. (Again,
delay between ingest and availability is personally variable, and
depends on how hard you're running.)

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

Date: 09 Aug 2006 07:08:22
From: Charlie Pendejo
Subject: Re: rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

Phil wrote:
> I don't like using a sports drink with a lot of sodium in it.
> If I'm out on a course and I'm carrying a high sodium drink,
> like Gatorade Endurance, and for some reason I feel I need to
> cut back on sodium, then I'm stuck with the sodium in the drink.

Is this more than a theoretical concern, Phil? Have you felt a need to
reduce your sodium intake during a run, and what prompted or signalled
that feeling?

Date: 09 Aug 2006 16:14:14
From: Phil M.
Subject: Re: rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

Charlie.Pendejo@gmail.com wrote:

> Phil wrote:
>> I don't like using a sports drink with a lot of sodium in it.
>> If I'm out on a course and I'm carrying a high sodium drink,
>> like Gatorade Endurance, and for some reason I feel I need to
>> cut back on sodium, then I'm stuck with the sodium in the drink.
>
> Is this more than a theoretical concern, Phil? Have you felt a need to
> reduce your sodium intake during a run, and what prompted or signalled
> that feeling?

Personally, I have never felt the need to reduce sodium intake. If anything
I've erred with too little sodium. What could signal that you're taking too
much sodium (hypernatremia)? A strong thirst (body's need for dilution),
significant weight gain, puffiness (body moves excess water to interstitial
spaces). Unfortunately, swelling can be caused by either too little or too
much sodium, or high levels of the hormone AVP. Too little sodium is
usually accompanied by a bad stomach - queasiness or nausea. With too much
sodium, the stomach is usually just fine. So it could be difficult to tell
if you had too much sodium.

--
Phil M.

Date: 10 Aug 2006 15:47:41
From: Daniel
Subject: Re: rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 16:14:14 GMT, "Phil M." <pmarg@charter.net > wrote:

>Charlie.Pendejo@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Phil wrote:
>>> I don't like using a sports drink with a lot of sodium in it.
>>> If I'm out on a course and I'm carrying a high sodium drink,
>>> like Gatorade Endurance, and for some reason I feel I need to
>>> cut back on sodium, then I'm stuck with the sodium in the drink.
>>
>> Is this more than a theoretical concern, Phil? Have you felt a need to
>> reduce your sodium intake during a run, and what prompted or signalled
>> that feeling?
>
>Personally, I have never felt the need to reduce sodium intake. If anything
>I've erred with too little sodium. What could signal that you're taking too
>much sodium (hypernatremia)? A strong thirst (body's need for dilution),
>significant weight gain, puffiness (body moves excess water to interstitial
>spaces). Unfortunately, swelling can be caused by either too little or too
>much sodium, or high levels of the hormone AVP. Too little sodium is
>usually accompanied by a bad stomach - queasiness or nausea. With too much
>sodium, the stomach is usually just fine. So it could be difficult to tell
>if you had too much sodium.

[I'm new to anything like long runs, so pardon me, but FWIW . . . ]
Maybe not just an electrolyte-or-not issue? If I ate carbs (like, a
banana and a balance bar) before a 2-hour-ish run, and take with me
*only* a carbohydrate-full drink, I have gotten weird hyperacidity
and/or lower-down stomach cramps. My main "long run" course has
drinking fountain access. I have been taking a bottle of sport drink
(in my case cytomax tangy orange with a little extra sea salt) and a
baggie of the powder to replenish, and a bottle of plain water. I'm
still experimenting with how to use either/both, but having both gives
me the option.
--
Daniel ( deltaechomike@usa.net )

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Date: 09 Aug 2006 04:30:30
From: Dot
Subject: Re: rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

oregonchick wrote:
> I'm assuming that up to a point, just plain old water is fine for
> rehydrating during exercise. At what point do you need to start adding in
> electrolytes? I am regularly doing cardio for 1 hr or more - the kind of
> cardio where I sweat a ton, no froo froo stuff. And then there's the
> running and bike riding and hiking, that tend to be for much longer
> stretches. Does it depend on how much you're sweating and for how long? I
> recently did a bike ride that was 5 hrs long, and afterwards thought about
> next time maybe filling my camelback with half gatorade and half water.
> What are the signs that your electrolytes are off?
>
Yes, it depends on how much you sweat. Different people's sweat can have
different electrolyte concentration - as well as different volumes - and
it may depend on current adaptation to heat (or not). Most fluids, esp.
gatorade (although endurance formula is a little better than std), don't
have enough electrolytes in them. This is why many people use
salt/electrolyte tablets on long runs. This allows you to adjust the
amount of electrolyte you need independent of fluid.

I just cut and pasted this from elsewhere:

"Hyponatremia" is too few electrolytes (usually salt / sodium) to go
with the fluid. While it may be newer runners in the marathon (those
that like to get their money's worth out of the race , usually over 4
hr), it can happen to some fast (as well as slow) ultra runners. Getting
enough fluids to prevent dehydration and enough salt/electrolytes to
prevent hyponatremia gets to be an art as the duration of runs gets
longer (usually more than a few hours).

Be aware that symptoms of dehydration and hyponatremia can be similar.
Some personnel at marathons had been misdiagnosing the problem and
having runners drink more fluids, which aggravated the situation. Both
runners and medical personnel at marathons are becoming better educated,
and some marathons now have equipment to diagnose it better.

There's 5 articles on this page:
http://www.usatf.org/groups/Coaches/library/hydration/

The most to-the-point ones are probably:
http://www.usatf.org/groups/Coaches/library/hydration/P...rDistanceRunning.pdf
http://www.usatf.org/groups/Coaches/library/hydration/FluidsOnRaceDay.pdf

How to estimate sweat rate:
http://www.usatf.org/groups/Coaches/library/hydration/U...OptimalHydration.pdf

Press release:
http://www.usatf.org/news/showRelease.asp?article=/news...ses/2003-04-19-2.xml

Most comprehensive:
http://www.usatf.org/groups/Coaches/library/hydration/I...dvisoryStatement.pdf

With fluids, electrolytes, and fuels, it's usually best to start using
before you show signs of deficiency. It's hard to makeup once you get
behind.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Date: 09 Aug 2006 13:51:15
From: bj
Subject: Re: rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net > wrote in message
news:GxdCg.229081$mF2.210613@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Hyponatremia" is too few electrolytes (usually salt / sodium) to go with
> the fluid. While it may be newer runners in the marathon (those that like
> to get their money's worth out of the race , usually over 4 hr), it can
> happen to some fast (as well as slow) ultra runners.

I don't think I've heard before that being slow is "getting my money's
worth" out of a race!
bj

Date: 09 Aug 2006 13:11:45
From: Phil M.
Subject: Re: rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

dot.h@#duh?att.net wrote:

> oregonchick wrote:
>> I'm assuming that up to a point, just plain old water is fine for
>> rehydrating during exercise. At what point do you need to start
>> adding in electrolytes? I am regularly doing cardio for 1 hr or more
>> - the kind of cardio where I sweat a ton, no froo froo stuff. And
>> then there's the running and bike riding and hiking, that tend to be
>> for much longer stretches. Does it depend on how much you're
>> sweating and for how long? I recently did a bike ride that was 5 hrs
>> long, and afterwards thought about next time maybe filling my
>> camelback with half gatorade and half water. What are the signs that
>> your electrolytes are off?
>>
> Yes, it depends on how much you sweat. Different people's sweat can
> have different electrolyte concentration - as well as different
> volumes - and it may depend on current adaptation to heat (or not).

Good point. IIRC, Pfitzinger recommends 400 to 800 mg of sodium per hour
during hot and humid running conditions.

> Most fluids, esp. gatorade (although endurance formula is a little
> better than std), don't have enough electrolytes in them.

Time to whip out the ol' spreadsheet ;-)

Mg Sodium per 12 oz serving
Accelerade 190
Powerade 37
Cytomax 60
Gatorade 150
Gatorade Endurance 300
Lucozade 177
Succeed! Ultra 155
Succeed! Clip2 102
Succeed! Capsule 344

> This is why many people use salt/electrolyte tablets on long runs.
> This allows you to adjust the amount of electrolyte you need
> independent of fluid.

Which is why I don't like using a sports drink with a lot of sodium in
it. If I'm out on a course and I'm carrying a high sodium drink, like
Gatorade Endurance, and for some reason I feel I need to cut back on
sodium, then I'm stuck with the sodium in the drink. With a lower sodium
drink it's much easier to just pop an S! cap when needed.

> With fluids, electrolytes, and fuels, it's usually best to start using
> before you show signs of deficiency. It's hard to makeup once you get
> behind.

Very true. I usually carry more fluids than I think I might need. Other
than the added weight and the possibility of having to pee (sometimes a
problem when in a residential area), not much else wrong with this.
Yesterday I was only running 10 miles. However, 5 miles were at LT (87%
MHR) and the temps were mid 90s F. I had 20 oz of Cytomax about 15
minutes before starting and drank 48 oz during the run. I was completely
soaked afterwards, uncluding socks and shoes. But I felt good and wasn't
overly thirsty.

Lately I've been experimenting with getting sodium the day before a long
run. 1 quart of vegetable juice the day before gives me 2,400 mg of
sodium.

--
Phil M.

Date: 09 Aug 2006 10:30:09
From:
Subject: Re: rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> The glucose-fructose sweetener it contains is quite wrong for exercise.
> You want to be taking in glucose only. Fructose upsets some stomachs,
> and cannot be utilized by muscle cells.

That is incorrect. Fructose is metabolized as well as is glucose.
Hexokinase phosphorylates fructose (just like glucose) so that it can
enter the glycolytic pathway.

Date: 09 Aug 2006 20:37:46
From: Mark Hutchinson
Subject: Re: rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

musrun@comcast.net said...
>
>Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>> The glucose-fructose sweetener it contains is quite wrong for
>> exercise. You want to be taking in glucose only. Fructose
>> upsets some stomachs, and cannot be utilized by muscle cells.
>
>That is incorrect. Fructose is metabolized as well as is glucose.
>Hexokinase phosphorylates fructose (just like glucose) so that it
>can enter the glycolytic pathway.

You may be a runner if... you are considering taking night courses
in biological chemistry.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:25:33
From: userfriendly
Subject: Re: rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

"Mark Hutchinson" <marhutch@goamil.com > wrote in message
news:44da479a$0$13412$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
: musrun@comcast.net said...
: >
: >Kaz Kylheku wrote:
: >> The glucose-fructose sweetener it contains is quite wrong for
: >> exercise. You want to be taking in glucose only. Fructose
: >> upsets some stomachs, and cannot be utilized by muscle cells.
: >
: >That is incorrect. Fructose is metabolized as well as is glucose.
: >Hexokinase phosphorylates fructose (just like glucose) so that it
: >can enter the glycolytic pathway.
:
: You may be a runner if... you are considering taking night courses
: in biological chemistry.

Nice one, Mark!

:
: --
: Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
:

Date: 10 Aug 2006 14:58:18
From: runsrealfast
Subject: Re: rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:47:20
From: runsrealfast
Subject: Re: rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

> The real important thing is to know yourself and your body. Everyone is
> different and everybodies bodies react a little different. Like me I
> don't need to drink sports drinks. I guess my body hangs onto the
> electrolytes longer than most, but your body might **dumb** them. Its a
> trial and error situation (please error on the side of caution!)

that was supposed to say dump. Sorry

Date: 15 Aug 2006 12:42:57
From: Beach Runner
Subject: Re: rehydration - water or gatorade type product?

Dr. Paul Bragg, a grandfather challenged a college cross country team
to a race
across Death Valley.

They had their Gatorade and all their garbage. He had distilled water.
Grandpa
Braggs won.

That junk is mostly corn syrup, sugar on steroids. It's as bad for
your teeth as
soda.

Avoid the hype, that's all it is.