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Main
Date: 19 Dec 2006 15:05:56
From: roger
Subject: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
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...well, ok, perhaps that's an exaggeration. but poetic license can
be a good and useful thing on usenet.
to those of you who know me from my evil past, hi, babes! to those
who don't, hi anyway.
je suis un runner extraordinaire, and i know *lots* more than you, with
the possible exception of a few wrinkled souls who clutter up this
group. yes, dan 'n' doug, 'tis you to whom i refer.
i'm scottish, with a scottish sense of humour, which you'll no doubt
find rather hard to take. i realise this, 'cos i've been spending
rather too much time in the company of north americans of late.
however, if you care to work past this irritating style, you will find
much to educate and amuse.
i should 'fess up and admit that i was a beastly troll on rec.running
for some years. however, we all grow up eventually, and time and life
in general has brought me to the conclusion that i can do more good in
this sad world were i to play the game rather than rage against the
machine. (note i include mixed metaphors and band names to keep those
of you who received an education and know something of music on their
toes)
i am fine. not as fit or as fast as i was, but it's a long story. got
hit by a car while running in paris. that'll knock 1 min a mile off
your speed quite easily. apart from a slight decrease in speed, and a
very messed up shoulder, my running is doing ok.
i run quite a lot in san francisco. another long story, which it
think should best remain untold. it's a beautiful place with some
amazing people. if you have the opportunity i strongly advise you
spend some time there. i can suggest some fine runs.
i'm no longer in medicine. we were never well suited. now i write
for my pennies. not very well, and penury is an ever-present
companion, but it suits my personality. when you accept that you've
left behind a somewhat privileged lifestyle it's not too painful,
though i do occasionally look at the twats in little mazda sports cars
and think 'damn, that should be me in there'.
okies, my re-introduction to rec.running is complete. i apologise in
advance to those who were hoping i would thunder back and return this
newsgroup to the good-old-chaotic days of yore, but I'll leave that to
the likes of MAT and Wobbot who, i see, still saunter along these
shores.
strangely, it's nice to be back. i missed you guys.
r.x.
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Date: 19 Dec 2006 21:29:09
From: Black Metal Martha
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
Beginning runner wrote:
> In article <1166586524.773779.142200@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com>,
> "Black Metal Martha" <bastmag666@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Meh, treadmill running in San Francisco! There's too many awesome
> > places to run outside!!!
> >
> > Run along the bay on Embarcadero!!! We're the BEST running city in
> > the US!!!!!!!!!!
>
> I'm going to be without transportation. My hotel is right across the
> street from Moscone Center, which is where MacWorld will be. So getting
> to any decent locations to run would be a problem.
Absolutely not. SF is a walking city. You would never want to drive
anywhere anyway. It's just a short distance away from the bay, and it's
an awesome run there! Run down Third Street gets you to PacBell Park
and then loop around Embarcadero and under the Bay Bridge.
Or, go for an early morning run through Downtown and the Financial
District and up through Chinatown and Northbeach.
Hop, skip and a jump on Muni gets you other places. Cars in SF suck!
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Date: 19 Dec 2006 23:25:43
From: Beginning runner
Subject: Running in San Francisco
|
In article <1166592549.622297.5170@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com >,
"Black Metal Martha" <bastmag666@yahoo.com > wrote:
> > I'm going to be without transportation. My hotel is right across
> > the street from Moscone Center, which is where MacWorld will be.
> > So getting to any decent locations to run would be a problem.
>
> Absolutely not. SF is a walking city. You would never want to drive
> anywhere anyway. It's just a short distance away from the bay, and
> it's an awesome run there! Run down Third Street gets you to PacBell
> Park and then loop around Embarcadero and under the Bay Bridge.
Running in downtown with all that automotive traffic and pedestrian
traffic? That's why I decided to use the treadmill during my stay there.
But if I did run it, I could run from the hotel to the ball park on 3rd,
then to Market on the Embarcadero, then back to 3rd on Market, and back
to the hotel; that's 3 miles, give or take a few hundredths, according
to Mapmyrun.com.
I used to live in Sunnyvale, and spent quite a bit of time in The City,
and have been back there for the past three MacWorld Expos, so I have an
idea what traffic is like there.
--
"I'll do the best I can do because that's the best I can do!"
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Date: 19 Dec 2006 19:47:12
From: Black Metal Martha
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
Charlie Pendejo wrote:
> roger wrote:
> > i run quite a lot in san francisco. [...] i can suggest some
> > fine runs.
>
> Please do: I'll have about three days there in a couple weeks. Thanks.
Ahem....native San Franciscan here.
Where are you staying? I can point you in any direction you want, I've
run them all.
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Date: 19 Dec 2006 19:48:44
From: Black Metal Martha
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
Beginning runner wrote:
> In article <1166577005.104666.115410@t46g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Charlie Pendejo" <Charlie.Pendejo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > roger wrote:
> > > i run quite a lot in san francisco. [...] i can suggest some fine
> > > runs.
> >
> > Please do: I'll have about three days there in a couple weeks.
> > Thanks.
>
> I'll be there from Jan 8 through the 13th for MacWorld Expo, but I'm
> probably going to be doing all my running on a treadmill in the hotel's
> workout room. But I'll be spending the next three or four days at a
> friend's home in Oakland, and plan to run around the perimeter of Lake
> Merritt, which happens to be exactly 5K.
>
> My friend likes to run along the north shore when she's in the city, and
> often will run across the GG Bridge and back in conjunction with the
> North Shore run. She'll also run on the western shore (Ocean Beach
> area) and/or in GG Park.
Meh, treadmill running in San Francisco! There's too many awesome
places to run outside!!!
Run along the bay on Embarcadero!!! We're the BEST running city in the
US!!!!!!!!!!
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Date: 19 Dec 2006 22:07:25
From: Beginning runner
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
In article <1166586524.773779.142200@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com >,
"Black Metal Martha" <bastmag666@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Meh, treadmill running in San Francisco! There's too many awesome
> places to run outside!!!
>
> Run along the bay on Embarcadero!!! We're the BEST running city in
> the US!!!!!!!!!!
I'm going to be without transportation. My hotel is right across the
street from Moscone Center, which is where MacWorld will be. So getting
to any decent locations to run would be a problem.
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Date: 19 Dec 2006 18:40:31
From: Twittering One
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
"We have encountered Roger,
A shady, if dodgy, character."
~ Folly
"Sleepy, if spirits turn a knob, a door opens, spirits find me
withered, from hunger Rife, for hours, now, I am outside the earth,
listening to signals of my head, my song, my dream, if mine, my
slumber. Crying, my ear renounces, fearing life, if more humbler. Hours
later, outside, the Globe signals songs, if not from my head, neither
from mine slumber.
For, each performer searches for a number, with justice, if host.
Somnolent, if the spirit withers, lifeless, from hunger Rife, hours,
dancing in the forest outside, a green earth, spirits spin circles,
both within, outside, signals of my head, signal my slumber.
With justice, if slow-witted and sleepy, Nightly, withered hungry, if
oft weepy, I go to work, each night, outside, where green earth grows
my Quilted Quest, for each night, I go to Morning Wood, my heart, if
art, my sparkling lark sings, mine waking slumber, a bitter thing made
better, if hours numbered.
So see, I unlock my wardrobe ~ A more gracefully dressed one, for you,
I become, even if you are a shady character called Roger ~ !"
~ Twittering
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Date: 19 Dec 2006 18:15:16
From: Beginning runner
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
In article <1166569556.398977.25550@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com >,
"roger" <rohunte@gmail.com > wrote:
> to those of you who know me from my evil past, hi, babes! to those
> who don't, hi anyway.
Hi Roger, I'm a beginning runner. I'm also a penguin, at least for the
time being, but maybe forever. Time will tell.
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Date: 19 Dec 2006 17:10:05
From: Charlie Pendejo
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
roger wrote:
> i run quite a lot in san francisco. [...] i can suggest some
> fine runs.
Please do: I'll have about three days there in a couple weeks. Thanks.
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Date: 19 Dec 2006 20:53:50
From: jobs
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
Charlie Pendejo wrote:
> roger wrote:
>> i run quite a lot in san francisco. [...] i can suggest some
>> fine runs.
>
> Please do: I'll have about three days there in a couple weeks. Thanks.
>
Hey Charlie,
Check out runtheplanet.com. Lots of descriptions.
http://runtheplanet.com/location.php?q=2&l=377
Also, www.bahiker.com for listings of hiking trails with maps and
directions. You can run them. :)
For your culinary requirements or eating on the go, you could get in
touch with a SF local - Dean Karnazes.
jobs
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 19 Dec 2006 18:57:18
From: Beginning runner
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
In article <1166577005.104666.115410@t46g2000cwa.googlegroups.com >,
"Charlie Pendejo" <Charlie.Pendejo@gmail.com > wrote:
> roger wrote:
> > i run quite a lot in san francisco. [...] i can suggest some fine
> > runs.
>
> Please do: I'll have about three days there in a couple weeks.
> Thanks.
I'll be there from Jan 8 through the 13th for MacWorld Expo, but I'm
probably going to be doing all my running on a treadmill in the hotel's
workout room. But I'll be spending the next three or four days at a
friend's home in Oakland, and plan to run around the perimeter of Lake
Merritt, which happens to be exactly 5K.
My friend likes to run along the north shore when she's in the city, and
often will run across the GG Bridge and back in conjunction with the
North Shore run. She'll also run on the western shore (Ocean Beach
area) and/or in GG Park.
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Date: 19 Dec 2006 15:20:28
From:
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
I'm him, I mean, he's me, er, we are us.
roger wrote:
> ...well, ok, perhaps that's an exaggeration. but poetic license can
> be a good and useful thing on usenet.
>
> to those of you who know me from my evil past, hi, babes! to those
> who don't, hi anyway.
>
> je suis un runner extraordinaire, and i know *lots* more than you, with
> the possible exception of a few wrinkled souls who clutter up this
> group. yes, dan 'n' doug, 'tis you to whom i refer.
>
> i'm scottish, with a scottish sense of humour, which you'll no doubt
> find rather hard to take. i realise this, 'cos i've been spending
> rather too much time in the company of north americans of late.
> however, if you care to work past this irritating style, you will find
> much to educate and amuse.
>
> i should 'fess up and admit that i was a beastly troll on rec.running
> for some years. however, we all grow up eventually, and time and life
> in general has brought me to the conclusion that i can do more good in
> this sad world were i to play the game rather than rage against the
> machine. (note i include mixed metaphors and band names to keep those
> of you who received an education and know something of music on their
> toes)
>
> i am fine. not as fit or as fast as i was, but it's a long story. got
> hit by a car while running in paris. that'll knock 1 min a mile off
> your speed quite easily. apart from a slight decrease in speed, and a
> very messed up shoulder, my running is doing ok.
>
> i run quite a lot in san francisco. another long story, which it
> think should best remain untold. it's a beautiful place with some
> amazing people. if you have the opportunity i strongly advise you
> spend some time there. i can suggest some fine runs.
>
> i'm no longer in medicine. we were never well suited. now i write
> for my pennies. not very well, and penury is an ever-present
> companion, but it suits my personality. when you accept that you've
> left behind a somewhat privileged lifestyle it's not too painful,
> though i do occasionally look at the twats in little mazda sports cars
> and think 'damn, that should be me in there'.
>
> okies, my re-introduction to rec.running is complete. i apologise in
> advance to those who were hoping i would thunder back and return this
> newsgroup to the good-old-chaotic days of yore, but I'll leave that to
> the likes of MAT and Wobbot who, i see, still saunter along these
> shores.
>
> strangely, it's nice to be back. i missed you guys.
>
> r.x.
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 10:16:36
From: rick++
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
> If I would have a car there, it would be a completely different matter.
> I'm not fond of taking public transportation decked out in running gear
> in mid January, even in SF--and then there's the matter of carrying
> money and ID.
You'd be one the more "normal looking" ones on the bus :-)
I hope everyone carries ID all the time when they go running.
Plastic baggy in jacket pocket or sock for me.
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 12:34:54
From: Beginning runner
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
In article <1166638596.155098.54350@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >,
"rick++" <rick303@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I hope everyone carries ID all the time when they go running.
Actually, I don't. All my training runs are inside and along the outer
perimeter of my sub division. Today's run, though, will be entirely
along the perimeter--the perimeter is 4 miles, and I'm going to be
running 3.5 miles. That gives me a half mile recovery walk--actually, a
bit more than that, because I'd still have to walk back to the house.
Fortunately, the two most heavily driven sides have bike paths, and I'll
be running in them.
--
"I'll do the best I can do because that's the best I can do!"
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 21:11:00
From: Mark Hutchinson
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
Beginning runner <beginning_runner@cox.net > wrote
> "rick++" <rick303@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I hope everyone carries ID all the time when they go running.
>
> Actually, I don't.
Common courtesy requires that all runners carry some sort of an ID.
It's important for the authorities to know how to properly dispose of
the body.
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 19:30:44
From: Beginning runner
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
In article <Xns989FA4A5D8202markhgoamilcom@216.77.188.18 >,
Mark Hutchinson <markh@goamil.com > wrote:
> >> I hope everyone carries ID all the time when they go running.
> >
> > Actually, I don't.
>
> Common courtesy requires that all runners carry some sort of an ID.
> It's important for the authorities to know how to properly dispose of
> the body.
I'll just say, "I live right here in the subdivision; take me home, I'll
navigate."
Oh, nevermind, you said "body".
--
"I'll do the best I can do because that's the best I can do!"
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 16:52:10
From: D Stumpus
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
"Mark Hutchinson" <markh@goamil.com > wrote
> Common courtesy requires that all runners carry some sort of an ID.
> It's important for the authorities to know how to properly dispose of
> the body.
That thought has passed my mind many a time...
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 08:43:28
From: Black Metal Martha
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
rick++ wrote:
> I lived in the area for a couple of decades and ran several marathons
> there.
> Great year round weather.
>
> - Run anywhere along the 14 miles of shoreline from the baseball
> stadium to
> the zoo. Run portions on different days. The bay side has an urban
> feel like
> NYC east river. The north side is touristry with views of Alcatrez and
> the GG Bridge.
> The Ocean side is the most natural. woth lots of beach sand.
>
> - Golden Gate park has all kinds of interesting sights inside. You
> can run all the way to
> the Ocean. The N-Judah trolley is fastest from downtown to various
> spots near the
> park or ocean.
>
> - Many tourists run the Golden Gate Bridge. Then you can run under the
> bridge and
> west into the hilly Marin grasslands. Theres some parking on the SF
> side on the right
> just before the bridge. But I think the meter maximum is just an hour.
> There is no single
> bus from downtown to the bridge.
You can take the N Judah to CalTrain Station and start your run there,
near PacBell Park. Run along the Embarcadero, past Pier 39 through
Fisherman's Wharf and Aquatic Park, then Ft. Mason Center and along the
Marina through Chrissy Field to the Bridge and back again. It's a nice
long route.
Or, continue your route through the Presidio through Sea Cliff and
Land's End towards Ocean Beach.
Of course, you can make several detours, a good one is going up the
steps to Coit Tower and then through Northbeach. Or, punish yourself
and run up California Street, the route of the Cable Car Chase.
San Francisco is such a compact and beautiful area, you can make a nice
run anywhere. Some places do get crowded, so early mornings are the
best time to run. I live Downtown and can pretty much go anywhere
within an hour on public transportation.
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 07:13:25
From: rick++
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
I lived in the area for a couple of decades and ran several marathons
there.
Great year round weather.
- Run anywhere along the 14 miles of shoreline from the baseball
stadium to
the zoo. Run portions on different days. The bay side has an urban
feel like
NYC east river. The north side is touristry with views of Alcatrez and
the GG Bridge.
The Ocean side is the most natural. woth lots of beach sand.
- Golden Gate park has all kinds of interesting sights inside. You
can run all the way to
the Ocean. The N-Judah trolley is fastest from downtown to various
spots near the
park or ocean.
- Many tourists run the Golden Gate Bridge. Then you can run under the
bridge and
west into the hilly Marin grasslands. Theres some parking on the SF
side on the right
just before the bridge. But I think the meter maximum is just an hour.
There is no single
bus from downtown to the bridge.
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 09:55:45
From: Beginning runner
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
In article <1166627605.870110.295710@t46g2000cwa.googlegroups.com >,
"rick++" <rick303@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Theres some parking on the SF side on the right just before the
> bridge. But I think the meter maximum is just an hour.
If I would have a car there, it would be a completely different matter.
I'm not fond of taking public transportation decked out in running gear
in mid January, even in SF--and then there's the matter of carrying
money and ID.
--
"I'll do the best I can do because that's the best I can do!"
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 06:42:53
From: Black Metal Martha
Subject: Re: Running in San Francisco
|
Beginning runner wrote:
> In article <1166592549.622297.5170@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>,
> "Black Metal Martha" <bastmag666@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > I'm going to be without transportation. My hotel is right across
> > > the street from Moscone Center, which is where MacWorld will be.
> > > So getting to any decent locations to run would be a problem.
> >
> > Absolutely not. SF is a walking city. You would never want to drive
> > anywhere anyway. It's just a short distance away from the bay, and
> > it's an awesome run there! Run down Third Street gets you to PacBell
> > Park and then loop around Embarcadero and under the Bay Bridge.
>
> Running in downtown with all that automotive traffic and pedestrian
> traffic? That's why I decided to use the treadmill during my stay there.
>
> But if I did run it, I could run from the hotel to the ball park on 3rd,
> then to Market on the Embarcadero, then back to 3rd on Market, and back
> to the hotel; that's 3 miles, give or take a few hundredths, according
> to Mapmyrun.com.
>
> I used to live in Sunnyvale, and spent quite a bit of time in The City,
> and have been back there for the past three MacWorld Expos, so I have an
> idea what traffic is like there.
>
That's cool. I just got back from a 2.5-mile run through downtown and
the financial district. It's nice and empty this time of morning. And
the decorations are so pretty!
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 09:52:35
From: Beginning runner
Subject: Re: Running in San Francisco
|
In article <1166625773.158594.87490@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com >,
"Black Metal Martha" <bastmag666@yahoo.com > wrote:
> That's cool. I just got back from a 2.5-mile run through downtown and
> the financial district. It's nice and empty this time of morning. And
> the decorations are so pretty!
Well, then, I just may give it a try; the treadmill was a last resort to
keep from not running all week. Thanks.
--
"I'll do the best I can do because that's the best I can do!"
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 14:22:41
From: Elflord
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
On 2006-12-19, roger <rohunte@gmail.com > wrote:
[snip]
> je suis un runner extraordinaire,
Hey, it's great that you're in San Francisco. I remember you challenged me to
some kind of race a while ago. Is it still on ? (-; I'd consider getting down
there for bay to breakers.
> and i know *lots* more than you, with
yep
> the possible exception of
nah
[snip]
> i should 'fess up and admit that i was a beastly troll on rec.running
> for some years. however, we all grow up eventually,
Nooooooooooooo ! I thought that was the role wobbot played -- to give us hope
that we don't have to.
> and time and life
> in general has brought me to the conclusion that i can do more good in
> this sad world were i to play the game rather than rage against the
> machine. (note i include mixed metaphors and band names to keep those
> of you who received an education and know something of music on their
> toes)
and a generation X band no less! Did you find a new girfriend, or at least
one on the side ?
[snip]
> i'm no longer in medicine. we were never well suited. now i write
Got out of academia. Ditto.
> for my pennies. not very well, and penury is an ever-present
> companion, but it suits my personality. when you accept that you've
> left behind a somewhat privileged lifestyle it's not too painful,
> though i do occasionally look at the twats in little mazda sports cars
> and think 'damn, that should be me in there'.
The Miata isn't that expensive in the US, especially if you get a new one,
but it does seem a bit overtly "mid life crisis".
> strangely, it's nice to be back. i missed you guys.
Welcome back ...
Cheers,
--
Elflord
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 08:29:36
From: So What
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
Roger it's a little late in the year for awards.
" what the hay!"
break open the white bread and baronies. and get the box of wine.
The white pick up artist is back.
maybe mary049 and her bad foot woman and a run. from her bedroom and
robe can't get no better right?.
did not know there were any roofs still on then old stone moss houses in
Highlanders areas..
wear shoe's this way you won't be danceing on ice dude. or sliding down
snow valleys.
localbiking. last 10 days 119 miles.
2 weeks goal = 120 mile,26.2 mile ,a swim.(bath)
see I got scotts in me too.a swim or a (bath) hee hee hee
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 13:40:49
From: Black Metal Martha
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
Charlie Pendejo wrote:
> BMMartha wrote:
> >> I wear a waste pack
> >
> > Damn...that's "waist" pack.
>
> Thanks for the clarification. I really didn't wanna believe you were
> telling us about your colostomy bag.
HAHAHA!!! I know...that goes until TMI.
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 11:51:45
From: Charlie Pendejo
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
BMMartha wrote:
>> I wear a waste pack
>
> Damn...that's "waist" pack.
Thanks for the clarification. I really didn't wanna believe you were
telling us about your colostomy bag.
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 11:33:26
From: Black Metal Martha
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
|
Black Metal Martha wrote:
> rick++ wrote:
> > > If I would have a car there, it would be a completely different matter.
> > > I'm not fond of taking public transportation decked out in running gear
> > > in mid January, even in SF--and then there's the matter of carrying
> > > money and ID.
> >
> > You'd be one the more "normal looking" ones on the bus :-)
> > I hope everyone carries ID all the time when they go running.
> > Plastic baggy in jacket pocket or sock for me.
>
>
> I wear a waste pack so I can carry my keys, ID, water, money, etc. It
> looks a little dorky, but it works for me.
>
> No one pays attention to the way people dress on MUNI. We don't even
> notice. ;)
Damn...that's "waist" pack. ;)
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 11:30:39
From: Black Metal Martha
Subject: Re: hi, my name is roger and I'm *SO* cute...
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rick++ wrote:
> > If I would have a car there, it would be a completely different matter.
> > I'm not fond of taking public transportation decked out in running gear
> > in mid January, even in SF--and then there's the matter of carrying
> > money and ID.
>
> You'd be one the more "normal looking" ones on the bus :-)
> I hope everyone carries ID all the time when they go running.
> Plastic baggy in jacket pocket or sock for me.
I wear a waste pack so I can carry my keys, ID, water, money, etc. It
looks a little dorky, but it works for me.
No one pays attention to the way people dress on MUNI. We don't even
notice. ;)
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