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Date: 06 Nov 2006 07:31:01
From: lake house
Subject: half done, what next?
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I ran my half yesterday. Did like I thought I would. I ran a 12 min
pace through out.
I need to treat myself to a yummy pair of shoes. My shoes are
completely worn out. I should've bought them before I ran the race but
I didn't have much time to break into them. I felt the pain in my big
toe while I was around mile 8. All my toes have blisters now. Luckily
they are not badly bruised, just a white bulby blister on all 10 of
them and a back toenail on two of them. I would like to think that I
could've done better with a nice pair of shoes :) I'm not too sore
today. My long runs have been above 10 miles for a month now. So my
body is well adjusted. I'm not going to run until I buy a new pair of
shoes this week.
Once this half is done, I thought I would sign up for another half in
about a month from now. But now I'm not so sure. I don't see any
marginal benefit of running another so soon. I don't think the time
would be any better. I'll wait till Feb to run another half. Hopefully
that will give me enough time to lose some weight and gain some speed.
That brings me to the topic of my question.
I'm 5'6" and 150lbs. That puts me around BMI of 24. I would like to
lose 20 pounds. I'll run 4 miles 3 times a week and a long run on the
weekend. I don't have access or time to go to a gym to do strength
training. Frankly I'd rather run than strength train. But I understand
to lose weight and look good I need to do weights too. So I'm thinking
I'll do few ab crunches, push ups, squats etc after stretching after my
runs. Is this a good idea? Any suggestions that help me with my weight
loss goals are very much appreciated.
Thanks.
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 09:24:15
From: lake house
Subject: Re: half done, what next?
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Charlie Pendejo wrote:
> lake house wrote:
> > I need to treat myself to a yummy pair of shoes. My shoes are
> > completely worn out. [...] I felt the pain in my big
> > toe while I was around mile 8. All my toes have blisters now. Luckily
> > they are not badly bruised, just a white bulby blister on all 10 of
> > them and a back toenail on two of them. I would like to think that I
> > could've done better with a nice pair of shoes :)
>
> I'm sure you *do* need a new pair of shoes, but it also sounds like the
> main problem is the size not the condition of your shoes. Too small!
>
> You should *not* have black toenails from a half marathon - or any
> race, black toenails aren't like a little soreness, something you
> expect from running. They're a problem you shouldn't incur under
> normal conditions. And blisters on all ten toes?? Yow!
OP here. I agree. The blisters and black toenails are a product of
training with bad shoes, not just due to the half. Thankfully I'm not
too sore and yes I'll throw my shoes off and get new ones.
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Date: 07 Nov 2006 03:01:27
From: Phil M.
Subject: Re: half done, what next?
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tedneeley@yahoo.com wrote:
> OP here. I agree. The blisters and black toenails are a product of
> training with bad shoes, not just due to the half. Thankfully I'm not
> too sore and yes I'll throw my shoes off and get new ones.
Hopefully bigger!
--
Phil M.
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 07:49:42
From: Charlie Pendejo
Subject: Re: half done, what next?
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lake house wrote:
> I need to treat myself to a yummy pair of shoes. My shoes are
> completely worn out. [...] I felt the pain in my big
> toe while I was around mile 8. All my toes have blisters now. Luckily
> they are not badly bruised, just a white bulby blister on all 10 of
> them and a back toenail on two of them. I would like to think that I
> could've done better with a nice pair of shoes :)
I'm sure you *do* need a new pair of shoes, but it also sounds like the
main problem is the size not the condition of your shoes. Too small!
You should *not* have black toenails from a half marathon - or any
race, black toenails aren't like a little soreness, something you
expect from running. They're a problem you shouldn't incur under
normal conditions. And blisters on all ten toes?? Yow!
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Date: 08 Nov 2006 19:28:41
From: lake house
Subject: Re: half done, what next?
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Phil M. wrote:
> tedneeley@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > OP here. I agree. The blisters and black toenails are a product of
> > training with bad shoes, not just due to the half. Thankfully I'm not
> > too sore and yes I'll throw my shoes off and get new ones.
>
> Hopefully bigger!
>
> --
> Phil M.
OP here.
Today I went to the running store to get fitted for a new pair of
shoes. She made me run/walk and measured me. I took my old shoes with
me. She said the length/size of the shoes was fine, it was the width
that's causing the problems. She said my shoe size is a good 1 to 1.5
sizes more than what my foot measures so there's ample space length
wise. The shoe is a B width and my feet are quite wide requiring a D
width. Will a narrow shoe cause black toes? Anyway, I came home with
new pair, ran one mile on a treadmill to see how I feel. If I ran
outside and figured I didn't like the shoes they wouldn't take them
back. I ran for 10 min on the treadmill. After the treadmill run I
thoroughly stretched for a good 15 minutes. It felt very good after
that. Tomorrow I'll run outside my usual 4 miles and see how I'll feel.
I think I'll keep these new shoes. But I just wanted to ask here if a
narrow shoe could cause black toes.
Thanks.
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Date: 09 Nov 2006 03:56:13
From: Elflord
Subject: Re: half done, what next?
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On 2006-11-09, lake house <tedneeley@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
> I think I'll keep these new shoes. But I just wanted to ask here if a
> narrow shoe could cause black toes.
yes
Cheers,
--
Elflord
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Date: 09 Nov 2006 11:45:27
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: half done, what next?
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"lake house" <tedneeley@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1163042921.903895.110040@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I think I'll keep these new shoes. But I just wanted to ask here if a
> narrow shoe could cause black toes.
Do you mean black toes or black toenails? A little more information like
which toe(s) and what part is black.
Without the clarification, I don't see how a shoe which is too narrow
will cause black toenails with ample space in the toebox, unless you tie
you shoes so loosely that your foot still slides forward in the toe box
on downhills and toe(s) hit the front.
OTOH is the shoe is too narrow and tied tight you may have or are
causing a circulation problem.
-Doug
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Date: 10 Nov 2006 07:05:23
From: Dot
Subject: Re: half done, what next?
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Doug Freese wrote:
>
> Without the clarification, I don't see how a shoe which is too narrow
> will cause black toenails with ample space in the toebox,
Hmmm, most shoes that are narrow are also narrow in the toebox. Or did
you mean lengthwise ample space? In general, if I had ample space
(general) in the toebox, I wouldn't call a shoe narrow. (or maybe my
brain is twisted from 2 days in big city)
Assuming you meant the latter, look at the foot imprint (in the insole)
of someone with wide feet (relative to their shoe) or compare their wet
footprint with the insole (taking that as representation of what the
inside dimensions of shoes are). At least in my case, the footprint is
wider than the insole (wet print) or only 4 toes show up (or maybe a bit
of the little one - little one too crunched). When you check shoe
length, you generally go by big toe. But someone in a shoe too narrow
for them will likely have their little toes banging against inside of
shoe, potentially getting black toenails, I would think (I've not had it
happen, but I didn't buy the shoes that felt like candidates for that to
happen). If you buy next size up to get the width, the shoe doesn't
align right and it's too sloppy in the big toe.
Oh, yea, even socks confine my feet - compare wet prints with and
without socks.
Dot
This was just something I noticed this summer.
--
"Dream big and dare to fail." --- Norman Vaughan
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Date: 10 Nov 2006 12:37:12
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: half done, what next?
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"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net > wrote in message
news:TwV4h.233254$QZ1.137320@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Doug Freese wrote:
>>
>> Without the clarification, I don't see how a shoe which is too narrow
>> will cause black toenails with ample space in the toebox,
>
> Hmmm, most shoes that are narrow are also narrow in the toebox. Or did
> you mean lengthwise ample space?
1. Narrow shoes, ample length and I'll add, the correct last shape -
cause the toes to get compressed sideways and usually causes neuroma
type problems and not black toenails. OTOH, if one tries to stuff a
curved foot into a straight lasted shoe or a straight foot into curve
lasted shoe, the end guys get friction in the nail area. In Lake
House's case it was his second and longest toe which should mean last
shape is not he problem.
I always liked the old Road Runner's table in their catalog that would
show last shape along with degree of stability. All that seems to remain
is the notion of stability. They, most shoe companies, have just the
arch test as a guide to the ideal shoe.
2. Any shoe(too narrow ,too wide, just right) without ample length can
cause black toenails usually from the downhill running.
-Doug
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Date: 09 Nov 2006 08:15:39
From: Dot
Subject: Re: half done, what next?
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lake house wrote:
> Phil M. wrote:
>
>>tedneeley@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>OP here. I agree. The blisters and black toenails are a product of
>>>training with bad shoes, not just due to the half. Thankfully I'm not
>>>too sore and yes I'll throw my shoes off and get new ones.
>>
>>Hopefully bigger!
>>
>>--
>>Phil M.
>
>
> OP here.
> Today I went to the running store to get fitted for a new pair of
> shoes. She made me run/walk and measured me. I took my old shoes with
> me. She said the length/size of the shoes was fine, it was the width
> that's causing the problems. She said my shoe size is a good 1 to 1.5
> sizes more than what my foot measures so there's ample space length
> wise. The shoe is a B width and my feet are quite wide requiring a D
> width. Will a narrow shoe cause black toes?
I don't know about black toenails, but definitely sore feet. I have wide
feet also and finding shoes that fit in toe box is always a challenge -
but worth it if you can find them. Did the shoes you tried on not have
widths? or was there a reason you didn't get a D width shoe? I think New
Balance makes most of their shoes in multiple widths and a few other
manufacturers make a few models in multiple widths. (e.g. Brooks
Adrenaline comes in multiple widths, but their trail shoes only have one
width, but it's frequently close to D, although not always)
FWIW. *My* adventures in shoe store today. I made my annual pilgrimage
to running shoe store today just to see what the most recent version of
various models felt like, in hopes of finding something to work in to my
rotation of all Trespass (occasional Cascadia). I had vaguely remembered
one other pair of shoes seeming to fit my feet several years ago (Adidas
Supernova, I think, before it came out in half a dozen flavors,
including trail, but not sure).
I think I tried Adidas Supernova Trail and Asics Gel Eagle, both of
which felt narrow and the Adidas seemed short. I stood (and ran a little
in place) on their ramp (about 10% slope or less) to test for toes
against front on downhill. Everyone should test their shoes this way in
the store. The running shoe store has a simple ramp, while REI has some
plastic rock formations / hills to test toe holds, downhill, etc. While
my big toe might have been ok, the other ones were definitely not going
to be happy on downhills as they get mashed from the side.
Trying a half size up, the width was better, but the length wasn't right
- the shoe forefoot wasn't flexing where *my* forefoot flexed. They had
Cascadias, but not in my size, so I tried the next 1/2 size up (thinking
heavy winter socks and sounds like new version is a little narrower),
and they were definitely too big. Worse still - with the red and black
polka dot pattern - they really looked like clown shoes. (look at
pictures of the new Cascadias to see what I mean - just when I thought a
shoe couldn't get any uglier. I've heard those polka dots are Scott
Jurek's recommendations.) There apparently is another color pattern.
http://www.brooksrunning.com/prod.php?p=BSI42196
I needed another pair of regular adrenalines (everyday and gym shoes),
so I asked to try a pair of those on in wide (this was a newer version
than what I had), put them on, and said "now these shoes fit right",
walked a few steps, and bought them. There really is a difference
between shoes that fit right and ones that don't.
BTW, I tested the other shoes on their tm with videocamera - very cool.
They didn't have that setup last time I tried shoes. They've got it
rigged so the camera takes image from the rear and projects on screen in
front of you so you can see yourself running from the rear. They can
also view it on a monitor and replay it for you in slo mo and stop in
places to illustrate points. I was using the shoes without the torsional
control at the time, but we couldn't see any obvious pronation, although
I had long jeans on so there might have been something less obvious.
I've noticed I tend to run a little knock-kneed (wears out stitching on
sporthills) which wasn't visible. The video did show how I apparently
really swing my left leg over and wasn't noticeable with my right. That
might explain the ankle kicks, although snowshoe running has reduced a
lot of that tendency, although notice stitches wearing on ankle inseams
also.
Another guy was in there about the same time, and salesperson showed me
his pronation - major, as the whole leg collapsed inward, or at least it
seemed that way. He was heel striker while I was more midfoot. She
didn't seem like she had seen a mid-foot striker before, but the guy
(pretty sure it was John Clark, Chris Clark's coach) that was helping me
and some others said that was fine.
When my PT first evaluated me, he said he wished he had a video camera
setup where he could show me what my gait looked like. That was probably
barefoot and before tons of strengthening exercises. In a full gait
analysis, the images are from side and maybe front also, not just the
rear like the store setup. Now I'm really curious what images at least
from hips down would show.
Dot
--
"Dream big and dare to fail." --- Norman Vaughan
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Date: 09 Nov 2006 06:10:38
From: Piedmont Donald
Subject: Re: half done, what next?
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"Dot" wrote:
<snip >
> I was using the shoes without the torsional
> control at the time, but we couldn't see any obvious pronation, although
> I had long jeans on so there might have been something less obvious.
> I've noticed I tend to run a little knock-kneed (wears out stitching on
> sporthills) which wasn't visible.
Always wear your running gear or at least roll up your jeans on these
occasions. Especially if part of an "annual pilgrimage"...
PD
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Date: 10 Nov 2006 04:42:13
From: Dot
Subject: Re: half done, what next?
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Piedmont Donald wrote:
> "Dot" wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I was using the shoes without the torsional
>>control at the time, but we couldn't see any obvious pronation, although
>>I had long jeans on so there might have been something less obvious.
>>I've noticed I tend to run a little knock-kneed (wears out stitching on
>>sporthills) which wasn't visible.
>
>
> Always wear your running gear or at least roll up your jeans on these
> occasions. Especially if part of an "annual pilgrimage"...
>
It was a side trip from a convention (also an annual trip), and I didn't
have space to carry that much gear with me all day. At my PT's, I always
wear shorts. I did have socks with me, but wasn't expecting a tm with
gait analysis.
Dot
--
"Dream big and dare to fail." --- Norman Vaughan
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Date: 09 Nov 2006 09:48:04
From: lake house
Subject: Re: half done, what next?
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Doug Freese wrote:
> "lake house" <tedneeley@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1163086107.361218.169070@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > OP here. Black toe nails. I should've been specific. Only the second
> > toe on both the feet has black toenails. That's the one next to the
> > big
> > toe and is the longest toe for me. Also my toe area of my feet is very
> > wide. There's lot of gap between my big toe and the toe next to it.
>
> If it's the longest toe then it's most likely jamming to the front of
> the toe box. I know this seems unlikely because the length seem
> adequate. As a rough guide you should have about a thumbs width distance
> from that longest toes to the front of the toe box. .
>
> Two other possibilities: 1, you're heavy in the toe off phase such that
> you almost claw forward or 2, your toes curl up and your nail is
> snagging/rubbing into the mesh top(not much height in shoe box).
>
> No answers just some other possibilities.
>
> -Doug
OP here. Thanks for your thoughts.
My foot length is between 8.5 and 9. I bought size 10 D shoes
yesterday.
What in general is the disadvantage of buying a size too big (let's say
10.5 D in my case) since I still don't know if 10 is the correct size
or if I should go bigger.
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Date: 09 Nov 2006 21:50:10
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: half done, what next?
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"lake house" <tedneeley@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1163094484.389939.244970@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> OP here. Thanks for your thoughts.
> My foot length is between 8.5 and 9. I bought size 10 D shoes
> yesterday.
> What in general is the disadvantage of buying a size too big (let's
> say
> 10.5 D in my case) since I still don't know if 10 is the correct size
> or if I should go bigger.
I would think a 10 should work just right. I have 11.5 and 12 and buy
13's and have been wearing this size for 18 years. Try the 10's on and
make sure you have some room from the end of your big toe to the end of
the shoe box. I'm sure you know, keep your toe nails cut short,
Good luck.
-Doug
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Date: 09 Nov 2006 07:28:27
From: lake house
Subject: Re: half done, what next?
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Doug Freese wrote:
> "lake house" <tedneeley@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1163042921.903895.110040@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > I think I'll keep these new shoes. But I just wanted to ask here if a
> > narrow shoe could cause black toes.
>
> Do you mean black toes or black toenails? A little more information like
> which toe(s) and what part is black.
>
> Without the clarification, I don't see how a shoe which is too narrow
> will cause black toenails with ample space in the toebox, unless you tie
> you shoes so loosely that your foot still slides forward in the toe box
> on downhills and toe(s) hit the front.
>
> OTOH is the shoe is too narrow and tied tight you may have or are
> causing a circulation problem.
>
> -Doug
OP here. Black toe nails. I should've been specific. Only the second
toe on both the feet has black toenails. That's the one next to the big
toe and is the longest toe for me. Also my toe area of my feet is very
wide. There's lot of gap between my big toe and the toe next to it.
thanks.
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Date: 09 Nov 2006 17:30:17
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: half done, what next?
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"lake house" <tedneeley@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1163086107.361218.169070@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> OP here. Black toe nails. I should've been specific. Only the second
> toe on both the feet has black toenails. That's the one next to the
> big
> toe and is the longest toe for me. Also my toe area of my feet is very
> wide. There's lot of gap between my big toe and the toe next to it.
If it's the longest toe then it's most likely jamming to the front of
the toe box. I know this seems unlikely because the length seem
adequate. As a rough guide you should have about a thumbs width distance
from that longest toes to the front of the toe box. .
Two other possibilities: 1, you're heavy in the toe off phase such that
you almost claw forward or 2, your toes curl up and your nail is
snagging/rubbing into the mesh top(not much height in shoe box).
No answers just some other possibilities.
-Doug
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