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Date: 06 Nov 2006 11:08:26
From: runsrealfast
Subject: Winter Layering
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With winter coming (should have been here already but as I right this
at noon its 58F and cloudy) I have been looking at my gear and my
layering. I was wondering if there was a tempeture guide anywhere that
might say "if its this temp where this many layers". I'm sure most of
it is pretty "dependent on the person" but I wanted to run through the
cold winter days (sub 10F) this year and was wondering if I had the
right equipment. My biggest issue is that I hate having alot of extra
weight on during my runs that might restrict me a bit.
John
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 19:22:34
From: shinypenny
Subject: Re: Winter Layering
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runsrealfast wrote:
> originally being from cali, there is no winter layering required, and
> since i've been in idaho I kind of chickened out when the temps got to
> cold (I spend more time playing basketball). But now I want to be
> consistant during the winter months. I was looking more for something
> like your skin will freeze at x degrees F, or at x degrees you need
> this much protective layering
You'll probably appreciate this web tool:
http://www.runnersworld.com/cda/whattowear/0,7152,s6-240-325-330-0-0-0-0-0,00.html
jen
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 16:27:45
From: rick++
Subject: Re: Winter Layering
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You should be slightly chilled for the first 10 minutes and sweating
lightly the rest.
If you feel colder and colder, then there is too little. Its
sometimes better to
err on extra, then take it off and carry it.
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 14:11:28
From: runsrealfast
Subject: Re: Winter Layering
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Al Bundy wrote:
> runsrealfast wrote:
> > With winter coming (should have been here already but as I right this
> > at noon its 58F and cloudy) I have been looking at my gear and my
> > layering. I was wondering if there was a tempeture guide anywhere that
> > might say "if its this temp where this many layers". I'm sure most of
> > it is pretty "dependent on the person" but I wanted to run through the
> > cold winter days (sub 10F) this year and was wondering if I had the
> > right equipment. My biggest issue is that I hate having alot of extra
> > weight on during my runs that might restrict me a bit.
> >
> > John
>
> Just start adding things as the temps go down and keep a record of what
> works. It's just not that difficult. Anybody that has run through the
> seasons should have figured it out by now.
originally being from cali, there is no winter layering required, and
since i've been in idaho I kind of chickened out when the temps got to
cold (I spend more time playing basketball). But now I want to be
consistant during the winter months. I was looking more for something
like your skin will freeze at x degrees F, or at x degrees you need
this much protective layering
John
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 13:25:07
From: Al Bundy
Subject: Re: Winter Layering
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runsrealfast wrote:
> With winter coming (should have been here already but as I right this
> at noon its 58F and cloudy) I have been looking at my gear and my
> layering. I was wondering if there was a tempeture guide anywhere that
> might say "if its this temp where this many layers". I'm sure most of
> it is pretty "dependent on the person" but I wanted to run through the
> cold winter days (sub 10F) this year and was wondering if I had the
> right equipment. My biggest issue is that I hate having alot of extra
> weight on during my runs that might restrict me a bit.
>
> John
Just start adding things as the temps go down and keep a record of what
works. It's just not that difficult. Anybody that has run through the
seasons should have figured it out by now.
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 11:53:35
From:
Subject: Re: Winter Layering
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For sub 10F days I go running in:
Feet: regular shoes and socks (probably my thicker smartwools).
Legs: My thick polypro tights or two regular weight tights. Wind pants
if the wind is whipping. Underneath I wear running shorts and if
necessary a pair of polypro liners.
Upper body: Long sleeve thick polypro shirt under a thick t-shirt and a
windbreaker if the wind is whipping.
Gloves: my ski gloves.
Hat: Ski type hat. But it has to be really cold for me to wear a hat. I
have a full head of thick hair, so I usually prefer a wrap around ear
warmer.
Sunglasses do help a bit too.
I never wear masks because when I wear them my nose runs constantly (I
hate that).
In this get-up I can run for up to an hour, maybe a few minutes extra.
You ALWAYS want to keep the little general warm. He doesn't like
getting cold and will make sure you know it when he warms up again.
Andy
runsrealfast wrote:
> With winter coming (should have been here already but as I right this
> at noon its 58F and cloudy) I have been looking at my gear and my
> layering. I was wondering if there was a tempeture guide anywhere that
> might say "if its this temp where this many layers". I'm sure most of
> it is pretty "dependent on the person" but I wanted to run through the
> cold winter days (sub 10F) this year and was wondering if I had the
> right equipment. My biggest issue is that I hate having alot of extra
> weight on during my runs that might restrict me a bit.
>
> John
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 19:23:41
From: Dot
Subject: Re: Winter Layering
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runsrealfast wrote:
> With winter coming (should have been here already but as I right this
> at noon its 58F and cloudy) I have been looking at my gear and my
> layering. I was wondering if there was a tempeture guide anywhere that
> might say "if its this temp where this many layers". I'm sure most of
> it is pretty "dependent on the person" but I wanted to run through the
> cold winter days (sub 10F) this year and was wondering if I had the
> right equipment. My biggest issue is that I hate having alot of extra
> weight on during my runs that might restrict me a bit.
Yes, it depends on the person and what kind of layers. We've been in the
teens (F) most of last week (subzero last night) and I've just been
wearing a t-shirt under an insulating layer (Sporthill Infusion or
Catalyst) under a shell. Bottom is tights under Sporthill xc's. I use
neoprene ear band under watch-type hat and mittens.
By subzero F I'll probably have long sleeve under Catalyst (layers over
things better than infusion) and heavier tights under xc's and maybe
windpants if I'm having trouble with cold feet or legs.
If I were using base layers, rather than an insulating layer, I might
need more layers. With the layers I have now, I don't usually have to
use more than one insulating layer (between base and shell) unless
subzero. That wasn't true with my original layers (but I was training
for a winter tri at the time where keeping warm on bike at in 0-10F
range was critical).
The thing I've found helpful in my more recent gear acquisitions is
stretchiness so they don't restrict motion.
Dot
--
"Dream big and dare to fail." --- Norman Vaughan
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 19:40:08
From: Dot
Subject: Re: Winter Layering
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PS: I forgot about vaseline for face, and if really cold and/or windy,
maybe a balaclava or face mask. I like something loose over my mouth to
help moisturize air when it's subzero.
--
"Dream big and dare to fail." --- Norman Vaughan
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Date: 07 Nov 2006 11:06:15
From: Ed Prochak
Subject: Re: Winter Layering
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rick++ wrote:
> You should be slightly chilled for the first 10 minutes and sweating
> lightly the rest.
> If you feel colder and colder, then there is too little. Its
> sometimes better to
> err on extra, then take it off and carry it.
Yes, that's the whole idea of layering. Too hot take it off, or loosen
it, or unzip it. And if you do not feel some chill when you first step
outside, then you are dressed too warm.
I would also say that it isn't a specific temp you need to worry about.
There are other outside factors as well: wind chill and precipitation.
A good idea for your first winter runs is to do multiple loops around
your home. So if you get too chilled, you can adjust your protection
(drop off or add a layer), or bail out if conditions are really out of
control.
On the plus side, there is nothing quite like a long solo run in a
winter snowstorm. So quiet and tranquil. No extremes in lighting (no
bright sun, but enough light even late at night). The sense of being
the first to traverse that snow covered ground.
Go out and enjoy the run!
Ed
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Date: 07 Nov 2006 13:10:32
From: runsrealfast
Subject: Re: Winter Layering
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Ed Prochak wrote:
> rick++ wrote:
<snip >
I guess I was just looking for an easy solution to an age old problem
(layering effects every day people as well!). But, basically I just
need to man up and deal with the cold. (of course its 70F right now!)
When I skiied alot I was just so terrible at the layering thing. I was
sweating on the way down the hill and freezing on the way up. never
really got that one down...
John
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Date: 08 Nov 2006 06:21:01
From: Dot
Subject: Re: Winter Layering
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runsrealfast wrote:
> Ed Prochak wrote:
>
>>rick++ wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> I guess I was just looking for an easy solution to an age old problem
> (layering effects every day people as well!). But, basically I just
> need to man up and deal with the cold. (of course its 70F right now!)
> When I skiied alot I was just so terrible at the layering thing. I was
> sweating on the way down the hill and freezing on the way up. never
> really got that one down...
>
Easy solution - xc ski, rather than downhill.:) Then you'll sweat on the
way up and may freeze on the way down (depends on hills).
Seriously, you will sweat - it's natural - no matter how few layers you
have on. When the skin chills, it sends internal signals and furnace
kicks in some more. Or the frost will form on layers and then melt.
> I was looking more for something
> like your skin will freeze at x degrees F,
Look at frostbite times on windchill charts:
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/lsx/vortex/newwindchill.php
>or at x degrees you need
> this much protective layering
This varies by individual (either genetic or regional, wasn't completely
clear in book) and on how adapted you are. It takes a couple weeks to
get used to the cold each year, but I believe over a couple years, one
starts getting better adapted. (book with chapter on cold weather
responses is downstairs)
FWIW, I'm not a believer in "dress like it's 10 deg (or 20 deg or
whatever) warmer", esp. in cold temperatures. Temperatures can get
colder, esp. on a long run - esp. when you run down into a bowl where
all the cold air has accumulated (wished I had a temperature profile of
today's run). I dress comfortably, maybe a little cool, then peel after
15 min, if needed. I frequently take extra layers with me on long runs.
I've found if I start out too cool, I never do warmup - even an hour
later. But that's me.
Dot
--
"Dream big and dare to fail." --- Norman Vaughan
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Date: 11 Nov 2006 02:36:38
From: runmum
Subject: Re: Winter Layering
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Dot wrote:
> FWIW, I'm not a believer in "dress like it's 10 deg (or 20 deg or
> whatever) warmer", esp. in cold temperatures. Temperatures can get
> colder, esp. on a long run - esp. when you run down into a bowl where
> all the cold air has accumulated (wished I had a temperature profile of
> today's run). I dress comfortably, maybe a little cool, then peel after
> 15 min, if needed. I frequently take extra layers with me on long runs.
> I've found if I start out too cool, I never do warmup - even an hour
> later. But that's me.
>
> Dot
>
I agree with Dot. I don't live in Alaska, but it does get very windy
here in Nova Scotia, and I dress mostly for the wind chill. I dress a
little cool but with good hand and head coverage. The one thing I never
find I need is special socks. I wear the thinnest coolmax socks most of
the year and switch to a little thicker for the winter. I did buy a pair
of winter socks my first winter (96?) and now just wear them around the
house.
I'm never bothered by an extra layer tied around my waist, or just extra
sweat, as long as it is being wicked away from the skin.
I use ultra-purified lanolin on my face in the coldest weather, Lansinoh
brand. It was designed for breastfeeding mothers but since I no longer
need it for that I find it wonderful for wind barrier and repairing
cracked skin.
Having said that, I ran today in shorts and a t, at 12 degrees C.
Donna
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