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Date: 15 May 2006 14:32:03
From:
Subject: Strategy for 24-hour relay
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Hey all,
I have a team of 7 doing a 24-hr relay race, and I'm trying to put
together a strategy for running it. We're alking about loops of around
7-8 miles at a time, 55-90 minutes per loop (mid-pack runners).
Anyone run a distance relay race like this before? Any tips you can
share about rest, nutrition, etc during the race? For example, I'm
wondering if it makes more sense to evenly space everyone (about 7
hours between laps), or 'group' each person's laps (2 hours between
some laps, 10 between others).
Any thoughts or experiences? Thanks!
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Date: 16 May 2006 01:23:54
From: Tony S.
Subject: Re: Strategy for 24-hour relay
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<john@milanski.com > wrote in message
news:1147728723.148649.45850@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Hey all,
> I have a team of 7 doing a 24-hr relay race, and I'm trying to put
> together a strategy for running it. We're alking about loops of around
> 7-8 miles at a time, 55-90 minutes per loop (mid-pack runners).
>
> Anyone run a distance relay race like this before? Any tips you can
> share about rest, nutrition, etc during the race? For example, I'm
> wondering if it makes more sense to evenly space everyone (about 7
> hours between laps), or 'group' each person's laps (2 hours between
> some laps, 10 between others).
>
> Any thoughts or experiences? Thanks!
7 people over 24 hours evenly divided by time is 3.43 hours for each person.
If you can divide it up any way you want, and assuming the course is on a
relatively short track, then you could choose a # of laps per person, or an
amount of time. I think the key to the fastest overall time would be to have
people run shorter stints of about 35 mins each. Any shorter and you would
barely be warmed up again before you were stopping. Keeping the time short
will allow the muscles to recharge in between efforts. Also, consider having
the strongest runners in your group do slightly longer legs. Set up a
schedule everyone agrees on and stick to it.
-Tony
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Date: 16 May 2006 11:55:48
From: Doug Freese
Subject: Re: Strategy for 24-hour relay
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"Tony S." <email_tonys@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:KQ9ag.1824$RY2.49@trnddc02...
> <john@milanski.com> wrote in message
> news:1147728723.148649.45850@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> Hey all,
>> I have a team of 7 doing a 24-hr relay race, and I'm trying to put
>> together a strategy for running it. We're alking about loops of
>> around
>> 7-8 miles at a time, 55-90 minutes per loop (mid-pack runners).
>>
>> Anyone run a distance relay race like this before? Any tips you can
>> share about rest, nutrition, etc during the race? For example, I'm
>> wondering if it makes more sense to evenly space everyone (about 7
>> hours between laps), or 'group' each person's laps (2 hours between
>> some laps, 10 between others).
>>
>> Any thoughts or experiences? Thanks!
>
> 7 people over 24 hours evenly divided by time is 3.43 hours for each
> person.
> If you can divide it up any way you want, and assuming the course is
> on a
> relatively short track, then you could choose a # of laps per person,
> or an
> amount of time. I think the key to the fastest overall time would be
> to have
> people run shorter stints of about 35 mins each. Any shorter and you
> would
> barely be warmed up again before you were stopping. Keeping the time
> short
> will allow the muscles to recharge in between efforts. Also, consider
> having
> the strongest runners in your group do slightly longer legs. Set up a
> schedule everyone agrees on and stick to it.
I watched a 24 relay by a tough resilient high school team to raise
money. They used about 8-10 runners and would run 1 mile laps. The
main problem with frequent laps was sleep deprivation and not being able
to get loose from midnight on. As an experienced distance runner even
then, I thought that was about the hardest way. I would much rather run
longer legs and have some time to eat and or sleep.
To be honest I don't know whether long or short intervals would yield
the faster time. Personally I would much rather run two times two hours
with a nice break but not likely produce the fastest times. I would keep
the intervals evenly spaced so someone doesn't have to stay up 24 just
to manage the schedule. A posted schedule with each running a block of
time would leave it up to the runners to manage their time.
I'd rather run for 4 hours then drink beer and cheer. :) My instincts
from distance running and a race perspective, those doing shorter laps
will look good early on fade and the sun goes down especially if you
team is just thrown together.
-DougF
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Date: 16 May 2006 13:26:44
From: Tony S.
Subject: Re: Strategy for 24-hour relay
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"Doug Freese" <dfreese@hvc.rr.com > wrote in message
news:85jag.52717$nA3.46955@news-wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com...
>
> "Tony S." <email_tonys@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:KQ9ag.1824$RY2.49@trnddc02...
> > <john@milanski.com> wrote in message
> > news:1147728723.148649.45850@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >> Hey all,
> >> I have a team of 7 doing a 24-hr relay race, and I'm trying to put
> >> together a strategy for running it. We're alking about loops of
> >> around
> >> 7-8 miles at a time, 55-90 minutes per loop (mid-pack runners).
> >>
> >> Anyone run a distance relay race like this before? Any tips you can
> >> share about rest, nutrition, etc during the race? For example, I'm
> >> wondering if it makes more sense to evenly space everyone (about 7
> >> hours between laps), or 'group' each person's laps (2 hours between
> >> some laps, 10 between others).
> >>
> >> Any thoughts or experiences? Thanks!
> >
> > 7 people over 24 hours evenly divided by time is 3.43 hours for each
> > person.
> > If you can divide it up any way you want, and assuming the course is
> > on a
> > relatively short track, then you could choose a # of laps per person,
> > or an
> > amount of time. I think the key to the fastest overall time would be
> > to have
> > people run shorter stints of about 35 mins each. Any shorter and you
> > would
> > barely be warmed up again before you were stopping. Keeping the time
> > short
> > will allow the muscles to recharge in between efforts. Also, consider
> > having
> > the strongest runners in your group do slightly longer legs. Set up a
> > schedule everyone agrees on and stick to it.
>
>
> I watched a 24 relay by a tough resilient high school team to raise
> money. They used about 8-10 runners and would run 1 mile laps. The
> main problem with frequent laps was sleep deprivation and not being able
> to get loose from midnight on. As an experienced distance runner even
> then, I thought that was about the hardest way. I would much rather run
> longer legs and have some time to eat and or sleep.
No time to warm up the fat-burning system with 1 mile laps, so all the
energy used will be glycogen, which could be one reason they couldn't get
going after midnight.
> To be honest I don't know whether long or short intervals would yield
> the faster time. Personally I would much rather run two times two hours
> with a nice break but not likely produce the fastest times. I would keep
> the intervals evenly spaced so someone doesn't have to stay up 24 just
> to manage the schedule. A posted schedule with each running a block of
> time would leave it up to the runners to manage their time.
It would depend on the experience and strength of each runner, and an
optimal schedule would take that into account, but I agree with you -- KISS.
On interval length, maybe intervals of one hour would be the most practical,
though not quite equal time for each runner. Choosing the 3 strongest
runners to do the last 3 legs would be a good strategy, them running 4x1
hours and others running 3x1 hours. This might also be better for warm-up
time, with 10-15 mins warming-up slowly into something like marathon pace
for the remaining 45-50 mins of their leg, then 6 hours to recover.
> I'd rather run for 4 hours then drink beer and cheer. :) My instincts
> from distance running and a race perspective, those doing shorter laps
> will look good early on fade and the sun goes down especially if you
> team is just thrown together.
Very true for extra short laps - like your HS kids running 1 mile legs on
glycogen. Discipline early on will be important, and perhaps the duty of the
next runner on deck would be to pace the current runner to make sure they
don't go out too fast in the early legs.
-Tony
> -DougF
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Date: 15 May 2006 17:03:49
From: thehick
Subject: Re: Strategy for 24-hour relay
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First off, I've never run a relay or organized one. But just
a few days ago I was talking with someone who had
participated in one and she said that most folk
dissappeared around midnight. look around. some of
your group just cannot hack it. hard to tell who.
so i would schedule the ones who look weaker first and
get some hours out of them. see if anybody will
guarantee they will stay. schedule them later.
i don't know./ just some ideas. if i were the
organizer i would have food appropriate to the time
of day. eggs and toast and coffee in the morning.
hot food at night. emphssize pasta. avoid beans.
please.
good luck...thehick
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Date: 16 May 2006 13:35:50
From: Robert Grumbine
Subject: Re: Strategy for 24-hour relay
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In article <1147728723.148649.45850@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com >,
<john@milanski.com > wrote:
>Hey all,
>I have a team of 7 doing a 24-hr relay race, and I'm trying to put
>together a strategy for running it. We're alking about loops of around
>7-8 miles at a time, 55-90 minutes per loop (mid-pack runners).
>
>Anyone run a distance relay race like this before? Any tips you can
>share about rest, nutrition, etc during the race? For example, I'm
>wondering if it makes more sense to evenly space everyone (about 7
>hours between laps), or 'group' each person's laps (2 hours between
>some laps, 10 between others).
>
>Any thoughts or experiences? Thanks!
I ran a 24 hour relay as part of (initially) a 9 person team, but
the race dictated for us that we do it 1 mile at a time. We lost
one guy (young guy, very fast but little experience at long distance
racing) after 16. The rest of us finished 22 or 23 miles. I averaged
a bit faster than I could have raced a 5k continuously, as did some
others. Other folks ran more like their 10 mile pace.
We were surprised to see how little sleep we wanted to get during the
relay, though I think we all went fairly directly from track to bed
afterwards. I was down for 2-3 hours (race finished at noon) and then
again at my usual time.
Given our paces, our 1 mile came up about once an hour. At times
this seemed rather short (to finish, migrate to our tent(s), sit down
and relax, snarf food and fluids, migrate back down to the track to
watch the person or two ahead of us do their mile(s), and then take
the next handoff), but mostly it fell in to a rhythm of its own. Some
folks short cut it and just went in to the stands after finishing.
The 'snarf food and fluids' is important. Given the distances being
covered, you should really be comfortable with long distance running.
10 miler, minimum, should be a fairly routine thing. Experience with
3 hour runs and the food and fluids for them is a very good idea. Most
of our folks had done marathons or longer. The ones who hadn't, including
the guy who didn't finish (which was for equipment reasons, not food),
were the ones who were hurting by the end.
I don't know about strategy if given a choice. I would be reluctant
to go much longer than 1 mile at a shot. 1 mile is short and even at
pretty high speed, the physical effects clear pretty fast (like, an hour).
Get up to 8 miles, though, and I'm not sure that coming back in 8-10 hours
is going to be a good thing. Try some evening 8 milers followed by
a morning 8 miler and see what you all feel like. If you're doing 70 mpw,
this is probably no great problem. If you're doing 20, it probably is.
--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences
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Date: 16 May 2006 10:51:13
From:
Subject: Re: Strategy for 24-hour relay
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Well that's what I get for not reviewing my post... I meant 'seven'
mile laps (7), not 'one' (1)!
Nevertheless, a simple schedule, appropriate food, rest, and not too
fast of a starting lap all sound good. I'm beginning to think that a
7-hr rest in between 7 miles laps is not a good idea. Might be pretty
stiff. 3 sounds more reasonable.
How long do you think it would take to recharge muscles after 60-90
minutes of 10K pace running?
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Date: 16 May 2006 18:49:08
From: Robert Grumbine
Subject: Re: Strategy for 24-hour relay
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In article <1147801872.969650.160580@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com >,
<john@milanski.com > wrote:
>Well that's what I get for not reviewing my post... I meant 'seven'
>mile laps (7), not 'one' (1)!
>
>Nevertheless, a simple schedule, appropriate food, rest, and not too
>fast of a starting lap all sound good. I'm beginning to think that a
>7-hr rest in between 7 miles laps is not a good idea. Might be pretty
>stiff. 3 sounds more reasonable.
>
>How long do you think it would take to recharge muscles after 60-90
>minutes of 10K pace running?
If you're running 7 miles at 10k pace, I have some question about
why you call it your 10k pace.
If the 'lap' is 7 miles, then you are kind of stuck as to how many
different ways you can slice the scheduling. You're probably going
to be best off splitting an even schedule, both for simplicity and
for shared pain. As you're looking at 3-4 legs of 7 miles, probably
you want marathon pace rather than 10k-10 mile pace.
The recovery is something to test. If you have time, try the
evening/morning or morning/evening runs I suggested in the previous
note. Offhand, if you're in the kind of shape to run 20 miles
straight, then it shouldn't be too bad to do the 7 milers with 7 hours
rest at marathon pace to LSD pace. Going faster than marathon
pace for those repetitions raises some real questions in my mind
about recovery. For short things you can just count off how long
it takes to burn off lactic acid and replenish muscle glycogen
(not long, as you're not that depleted). For 7 miles, there's
more glycogen to replace, and you start having to pay attention to
how beat up the muscles are getting.
If you're up to doing 21-28 miles straight, you may well do best
with that.
Again, this is not much question of you're doing 70 mile weeks, and
very much one if you're only doing 20.
--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences
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Date: 16 May 2006 21:20:14
From: steve common
Subject: Re: Strategy for 24-hour relay
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bobg@radix.net (Robert Grumbine) wrote:
> If you're up to doing 21-28 miles straight, you may well do best
>with that.
I don't think they'll have to. If you reckon 7 runners x 2 laps x 75'
(average of 60-90'), that's more than 24 hours already.
I think the slower guys will only do two laps, the faster ones three = >
4 slow runners + 3 fast runners = 4 x 90 + 4 x 60 mins = 600' = 10 hours
Do that twice and there's just 4 hours left to share out, eg 2xslow +
1xfast or 3xfast + a bit left over or ...
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