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Date: 19 Mar 2006 19:57:54
From:
Subject: Cramping/muscle spasms during long runs and throughout the day/night
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Hi all. This is my first post to this group.
I've been running for the last few years and recently (today!)
completed my fourth marathon. My goal is to qualify for Boston this
year (will need a 3:10 as I'm a 30 y/o male) so I need to push pretty
hard.
I've been noticing lately that throughout the day and at night the
muscles in my legs have been "firing" a lot. It's not painful at all
but just feels kinds of strange. It's my calves, quads, hamstrings,
pretty much my entire leg.
Today I ran the LA Marathon kind of last minute and around mile 18 or
so it started feeling like various muscles in my legs were about to
spasm (mostly my calves and groin). I ended up alternating walking and
running the last five miles or so to prevent all-out spasm.
I'm wondering if these problems are related and if there's anything
that can be done for either issue. I have made a lot of dietary
changes over the last year and I'm wondering if that is playing a role.
I'm eating what I think is a pretty healthy diet right now (lots of
fruits, veggies, whole grains and essential oils) but I'm wondering if
I'm missing out on something that could be causing some of these
problems.
I'm supposed to run the Rock-n-Roll the first week of June so I'm
hoping to get this figured out before then. Any and all
advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!!!
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Date: 20 Mar 2006 05:50:48
From: Dan Stumpus
Subject: Re: Cramping/muscle spasms during long runs and throughout the day/night
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<jon@bischke.com > wrote in
> Today I ran the LA Marathon kind of last minute and around mile 18 or
> so it started feeling like various muscles in my legs were about to
> spasm (mostly my calves and groin). I ended up alternating walking and
> running the last five miles or so to prevent all-out spasm.
Jon:
I've quoted what I've learned about cramping from a reply I wrote a while
ago.
In brief, it's likely to be dehydration. Here's the long version:
=====
If your cramps were affecting more than a single muscle (eg, both sides, if
you stop and stretch, something else cramps, if you feel funny pre-cramp
twinges in other places, etc), then you are dehydrated.
It took me a couple of years to figure it out. I would cramp on longer
races typically after 3.5 - 5 hours, especially in hot or humid conditions.
After one particularly bad race, I weighed myself after I had to walk in
because of cramps. I had lost about 8 lbs (and I started at 152 lbs).
You say you stayed hydrated, but did you weigh yourself before and after the
race? I have downed quarts of liquid in long races and still have come up
5-8 lbs light at the end.
The proof that it is hydration is this (if this sounds too simple to be
true):
Next time it happens, stop and drink 20-20 ounces of fluid. Take a couple
of
salt tablets (I use succeed brand), too. Start walking. If you can begin
to jog again without cramps, that was it. When this has happened to me in
races, as little as 20oz chugged quickly with salt has ended them within 2-3
minutes. Don't try and jog through the cramps -- that causes muscle damage.
If you rip yourself up, the water will stop the cramps, but not the pain
from running on shredded muscles.
You are a big guy, with a high BMI (look it up). The higher the BMI, the
higher the heat load (less surface area per weight). So you run hotter than
the skinny ones. So you sweat more. In addition, you may have a high sweat
rate to boot.
Next race, weigh yourself before and after, take into account how much you
drank during, and determine your sweating rate (under that set of
conditions -- temp, humdity). I need about 40oz/hour when racing in 65
degrees when its humid, for example.
Finally, you need to replace salt if you're going to be drinking more than a
quart or two of fluid in a race. To the tune of 1 gram of sodium/liter
(about 2/3 tsp of pure salt per quart). This is the amount of salt in your
sweat. Without salt replacement, your sodium concentration declines. When
that happens:
You sweat less (and overheat).
You drink and the fluid sloshes around in your stomach instead of being
absorbed.
(it sloshes around because you need to pump sodium into your stomach in
order to absorb water. When your body is low on it, it suppresses this
process to conserve your plasma sodium concentration)
You feel queasy, and may not even want to drink.
In extreme cases you can get Hyponatremia and it will kill you. (rare).
So you get a vicious cycle of your body needing water, yet you feel queasy
and it won't absorb. The solution is to take a Succeed tablet for every
pint or two you drink during a long race. Salt with water enables your
stomach to absorb a 20 oz bottle in 2-4 minutes.
NFI in Succeed, salt, or water...
-- Dan
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Date: 19 Mar 2006 23:24:28
From:
Subject: Re: Cramping/muscle spasms during long runs and throughout the day/night
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On 19 Mar 2006 19:57:54 -0800, jon@bischke.com wrote:
>I've been running for the last few years
Didn't you get tired after a few days?
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Date: 20 Mar 2006 10:08:15
From:
Subject: Re: Cramping/muscle spasms during long runs and throughout the day/night
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This is great stuff. Thinking back to yesterday it certainly could
have been dehydration. I probably didn't consume more than 20-30/oz of
fluid throughout the entire race let alone per hour. Not the brightest
thing in the world huh? The weather was fairly cool (mid-50s most of
the race) and not humid but regardless I realize that getting more
fluids is probably one very important thing for the future.
The recommendations on the salt tablets is really good too. That's
definitely something I will plan to do in the future and experiment
with on my training runs.
I'll also look into magnesium & calcium supplements. I don't currently
do any nutritional supplements figuring that I get most of what I need
through a pretty healhty diet. Can anyone point me to a resource
detailing what sort of supplementation might make sense for distance
runners?
Thanks again for all your help here. It means a lot to me! :)
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Date: 20 Mar 2006 14:46:43
From: Tim Downie
Subject: Re: Cramping/muscle spasms during long runs and throughout the day/night
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jon@bischke.com wrote:
> Hi all. This is my first post to this group.
>
> I've been running for the last few years and recently (today!)
> completed my fourth marathon. My goal is to qualify for Boston this
> year (will need a 3:10 as I'm a 30 y/o male) so I need to push pretty
> hard.
>
> I've been noticing lately that throughout the day and at night the
> muscles in my legs have been "firing" a lot. It's not painful at all
> but just feels kinds of strange. It's my calves, quads, hamstrings,
> pretty much my entire leg.
Hi, have a google for magnesium deficiency. May be nothing but it can cause
muscle "twitchiness" and taking a supplement for a short time will be
relatively harmless and may help. If it *does* help, you ought to check
your diet because most people shouldn't get deficient.
Tim
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Date: 20 Mar 2006 10:44:38
From: Charlie Pendejo
Subject: Re: Cramping/muscle spasms during long runs and throughout the day/night
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Tim Downie wrote:
> Hi, have a google for magnesium deficiency. May be nothing but it can
> cause muscle "twitchiness"
I started taking supplemental magnesium & calcium (currently in a tasty
blueberry flavored liquid form, with yogurt and almond milk over my
breakfast cereal) on this ng's advice, to combat nighttime cramps in my calf
and foot. That seems to have worked for the cramps, but I still often have
a fair bit of muscle firing / releasing / twitching, especially after a hard
effort (like a half marathon race), especially in my calves. It seems like
the same kind of twitches as the muscle releases I get when rolling
hips/glutes on a firm rubber ball.
Just FWIW. I'm not to worried about what that means to me, as long as I
don't wake up with the horrible calf cramps.
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Date: 20 Mar 2006 22:05:47
From: BobB
Subject: Re: Cramping/muscle spasms during long runs and throughout the day/night
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Charlie,
I'd be very careful of calcium supplements. If you ever get a kidney stone
you will wish you never took in extra calcium. I'd stick to potassium and
get it through bananas.
Bob
"Charlie Pendejo" <charlie.pendejo@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1142869502.268469@nntp.acecape.com...
> Tim Downie wrote:
>> Hi, have a google for magnesium deficiency. May be nothing but it can
>> cause muscle "twitchiness"
>
> I started taking supplemental magnesium & calcium (currently in a tasty
> blueberry flavored liquid form, with yogurt and almond milk over my
> breakfast cereal) on this ng's advice, to combat nighttime cramps in my
> calf and foot. That seems to have worked for the cramps, but I still
> often have a fair bit of muscle firing / releasing / twitching, especially
> after a hard effort (like a half marathon race), especially in my calves.
> It seems like the same kind of twitches as the muscle releases I get when
> rolling hips/glutes on a firm rubber ball.
>
> Just FWIW. I'm not to worried about what that means to me, as long as I
> don't wake up with the horrible calf cramps.
>
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Date: 21 Mar 2006 08:26:33
From: Charlie Pendejo
Subject: Re: Cramping/muscle spasms during long runs and throughout the day/night
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BobB wrote:
> I'd be very careful of calcium supplements. If you ever get a kidney
> stone you will wish you never took in extra calcium.
Hey Bob, thanks for the heads-up. I will read up on it.
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Date: 21 Mar 2006 08:28:43
From:
Subject: Re: Cramping/muscle spasms during long runs and throughout the day/night
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On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:26:33 -0500, "Charlie Pendejo"
<charlie.pendejo@gmail.com > wrote:
>BobB wrote:
>> I'd be very careful of calcium supplements. If you ever get a kidney
>> stone you will wish you never took in extra calcium.
>
>Hey Bob, thanks for the heads-up. I will read up on it.
>
And that naked pic of your genitalia was great! Lots of good wanking
material.
CP
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Date: 20 Mar 2006 21:12:40
From: AlanW
Subject: Re: Cramping/muscle spasms during long runs and throughout the day/night
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jon@bischke.com wrote in news:1142827074.191685.13010
@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> Hi all. This is my first post to this group.
>
> I've been running for the last few years and recently (today!)
> completed my fourth marathon. My goal is to qualify for Boston this
> year (will need a 3:10 as I'm a 30 y/o male) so I need to push pretty
> hard.
>
> I've been noticing lately that throughout the day and at night the
> muscles in my legs have been "firing" a lot. It's not painful at all
> but just feels kinds of strange. It's my calves, quads, hamstrings,
> pretty much my entire leg.
>
> I'm supposed to run the Rock-n-Roll the first week of June so I'm
> hoping to get this figured out before then. Any and all
> advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Thanks!!!
>
The main electrolytes affecting muscle cramping are potassium, sodium
and calcium.
http://www.medicinenet.com/muscle_cramps/page2.htm
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